North South divide ....

**Parouisa** Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:17 pm

Having heard some of the comments on the Portlaoise incidents on radio yesterday and having read a lot of forum comment there is a very worrying and divisive thread running through many of the comments – from both sides. It is that of north v south and some of the comments on both sides are quite nasty. And it is not new.

I think there is a real problem in this and it is the elephant in the room which is not being addressed. It seems to me that the ‘nationalist’ community on this island is now as divided as it ever has been. To see the vitriol and nastiness expressed among GAA fans is especially startling given the strong nationalist origin and ethos of the organisation.

It was also very noticeable during the Presidential campaign with a lot of comment against Dana (to some extent) but more so against Martin McGuinness, along the lines of ‘what are they doing down here?’ And it was quite a prevalent comment.

I would always have considered myself pro United Ireland – but by democratic means only. I would still hold this hope. But it seems to me that there is a sea change in attitude over the last number of years among the communities on both sides of the border who would previously have held this same view.

In the search for peace – and I am a huge supporter of peace – I think the whole dynamic of Northern nationalists and people in the South has been overlooked and it has changed dramatically. And it is not healthy. Regularly too you will hear it mentioned as an economic argument – which is sad if it only comes down to that for people.

I have my own read on certain aspects of the situation which I will not go into in much detail now but I feel the lack of dialogue on this subject has helped feed the monster. I think there is a serious need to address the issue and the sooner the better.

**The Puke** Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:30 pm

That is because most people in the south are partitionsts at the end of the day and lack empathy with the trouble and strife our nothern brethren went through. Just look at the amount of sh1t that was spoken about Martin McGuinness during the presidential election, you can't blame people from the north having a chip on their shoulder when it comes to the south

**Parouisa** Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:45 pm

Yes as I said it was quite prevalent during the Presidential Election but I don't think it's as simple as that.

**bocerty** Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:13 pm

Parouisa wrote:Yes as I said it was quite prevalent during the Presidential Election but I don't think it's as simple as that.

during the build up to the election it was quite funny to see the number of people from Southern Ireland questioning Martin McGuiness on his Irishness. I can remember one in particular were a woman insisted that Martin was from the UK and not Ireland and thus he didn't represent her, she basically told him to f**k off back to the North were he belonged!!!!

It illustrates the ignorance of some people who obviously are not afraid to go on National TV and demonstrate their stupidity. Which part of Ireland was Mary McAleese born in??????????

I dont know where this mindset comes from but what i do know is that as a supporter from the 6 counties i have been told to f**k off back to Tyrone you Northern b*stard on more than one occasion whilst attending games in the South. I generally laugh it off as i think it is a rather weak and futile comment from some clown who is only repeating something he/she heard elsewhere.

That said there was a time not that long ago that during Tyrone v Derry games the chant often went up "theres no f*cking London in Tyrone"!!!!

Is the problem really as big as we make it out to be or is it used as an excuse by some to antagonise Northern supporters particularly when Northern teams were getting the upper hand.

I should also point that in the main i have no issue with supporters from the 26 counties and the reception we Nordies receive is generally very good.

**Real Kerry Fan** Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:15 pm

I for one had never a problem mixing with supporters from the North( Meaning the six counties) over the years. Mostly all I found to be the same as us all eg, genuine GAA men and women. I think in the GAA front a lot of the crap has developed in rececnt years from the media-pundits tarnishing Ulster teams as negative etc. and this has created a mindset in a lot of the Republic's supporters viewpoint. Of course we had the usual anti northern vile fom all the media during the recent Presidential Election.
The sindo,RTE etc will never change and are going to be selective in their coverage of all matters relating to Ireland North and South but they cleverly feed the public with this vile towards certain citizens. I have stayed relatively quiet on last Sunday's match even though Dromid Pearses are a neighbouring club and I know a lot of their members. Let GAA HQ make their judgement on the video and other evidence and those found guilty should be dealt with in a severe fashion. The matter should now be left to the authorities as enough has been said and blasting it all over the airwaves on a daily manner does not solve the problem.

**Thomas Clarke** Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:27 pm

Although it manifests itself in gaelic games, this is not a GAA rivalry thing, but rather it is more wide-reaching. Being honest, I think that a lot of northern nationalists/republicans feel betrayed by the south, and not welcome as part of what the southerners have decided constitutes 'Ireland'.

Many northern Catholics would feel like they are looked down upon by people in the 26 counties, and have long been thought of as a dangerous embarrassment. We feel that there is no understanding of the struggle that was fought here, and that southerners all feel that we should have been grinning and bearing the mistreatment we received for decades, instead of fighting against it.

'Embarrassment' and 'something to be feared' would be how northerners believe that southerners perceive them. 'God forbid there was every a united 32 county state and have those northern savages bring their problems down to our little utopia', would be the line of thought.

(At this point, I'm going to add that I am generalising, and I realise that the majority of posters on this site, mostly rural GAA types, do not hold this view of the north, however, as Parouisa says, there are a significant proportion of people who do, many of those influential and in the media.)

I think the Celtic Tiger has added to the problem, as the south, for the first time in hundreds of years, found themselves in a position of prosperity, and with something to lose. Ireland, the south in particular, has done a remarkable job of marketing itself as being full of craic-loving, happy-go-lucky, lovers of life. As someone who has travelled a lot, I can assure you that this is very much the view people around the world have of Ireland. Southern owners of restaurants, bars, shops, guest houses and the likes do not want this myth/illusion shattered by 1.5 million dour northerners and the bad press they bring, and I think that many of them resent northerners trying to 'muscle in' in their well crafted sales patch.

Most people in the north have only become aware of this in recent times. I think that is because our attention is no longer as diverted by Unionists, and we have started to become more conscious of the lack of esteem in which we are held by those we always took for sympathetic allies.

I find it ironic that, at a time when the British would be supportive of a United Ireland, and many Protestants in the north are becoming much more accepting of the idea than ever before, it is our countrymen in the south who would perhaps represent the biggest obstacle to this happening. This has, of course, led to resentment and some bitterness amongst people in the north, and a clear divide between the 2 peoples has very sadly emerged.

Anyway, that is my view, and based only on personal observations.

**Parouisa** Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:38 pm

I have experienced some abuse from Northern people at matches or after (though a tiny minority) - Free State b*****d etc. Mostly I have had good craic with various supporters but definitely there is level of suspicion and unease in the relationship now, in the main.

Would agree almost 100% with your observations there TC - and agree totally re Celtic Tiger impact. I really think there needs to be dialogue. The peace process was a dialogue along certain lines as it had to be - but this issue has worsened since - and has not been addressed at all. It could be as big a challenge to put right than the peace process itself.

**The Puke** Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:38 pm

I despise of the term Southern Ireland

Unless one is talking about Cork, Waterford etc

**Thomas Clarke** Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:46 pm

The Puke wrote:I despise of the term Southern Ireland

Unless one is talking about Cork, Waterford etc

Apologies Puke. I could rework using terms like 'the British-occupied 6 counties of north-eastern ulster' and 'the independent 26 counties of southern, western and south-eastern ireland', but I felt it might have a been a bit long-winded.

**The Puke** Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:50 pm

Thomas Clarke wrote:
The Puke wrote:I despise of the term Southern Ireland

Unless one is talking about Cork, Waterford etc

Apologies Puke. I could rework using terms like 'the British-occupied 6 counties of north-eastern ulster' and 'the independent 26 counties of southern, western and south-eastern ireland', but I felt it might have a been a bit long-winded.

In future please refer to the failed 26 county statelet as Ireland and the 6 county british occupied failed statelet as the Occupied Six or O6 for short

**OMAR** Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:03 pm

Nordies I share your pain

Most people from the 25 assume I'm from the North anyway.
A North Donegal/Letterkenny accent would sound more like a derry one than a Daniel one to the untrained ear

- Refer back to Loyals You tube clip of Brendan Devenny's radio commentary for an extreme example

**Loyal2TheRoyal** Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:19 pm

OMAR wrote:Nordies I share your pain

Most people from the 25 assume I'm from the North anyway.
A North Donegal/Letterkenny accent would sound more like a derry one than a Daniel one to the untrained ear

- Refer back to Loyals You tube clip of Brendan Devenny's radio commentary for an extreme example

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**Parouisa** Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:19 pm

Interesting article from Martin Breheny in todays Indo - Vilification of Ulster clubs widening north-south divide. He almost goes beyond GAA and he may even be one of Loyal's 1% on this site! ..... Suspect

**Thomas Clarke** Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:40 am

Parouisa wrote:Interesting article from Martin Breheny in todays Indo - Vilification of Ulster clubs widening north-south divide. He almost goes beyond GAA and he may even be one of Loyal's 1% on this site! .....

1% implying that he contributes to the site? Not so sure on that, but very possibly among the remaining 99!

Mossbags used to think that Colm Keys, also in the Indo, was copying his ideas - perhaps this forum is avidly read by the journalists there during tea-breaks every morning. GlobalGAA influencing the media - who'd have thought it?!

**North Side Gael** Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:56 am

Thomas Clarke wrote:Although it manifests itself in gaelic games, this is not a GAA rivalry thing, but rather it is more wide-reaching. Being honest, I think that a lot of northern nationalists/republicans feel betrayed by the south, and not welcome as part of what the southerners have decided constitutes 'Ireland'.

Many northern Catholics would feel like they are looked down upon by people in the 26 counties, and have long been thought of as a dangerous embarrassment. We feel that there is no understanding of the struggle that was fought here, and that southerners all feel that we should have been grinning and bearing the mistreatment we received for decades, instead of fighting against it.

'Embarrassment' and 'something to be feared' would be how northerners believe that southerners perceive them. 'God forbid there was every a united 32 county state and have those northern savages bring their problems down to our little utopia', would be the line of thought.

(At this point, I'm going to add that I am generalising, and I realise that the majority of posters on this site, mostly rural GAA types, do not hold this view of the north, however, as Parouisa says, there are a significant proportion of people who do, many of those influential and in the media.)

I think the Celtic Tiger has added to the problem, as the south, for the first time in hundreds of years, found themselves in a position of prosperity, and with something to lose. Ireland, the south in particular, has done a remarkable job of marketing itself as being full of craic-loving, happy-go-lucky, lovers of life. As someone who has travelled a lot, I can assure you that this is very much the view people around the world have of Ireland. Southern owners of restaurants, bars, shops, guest houses and the likes do not want this myth/illusion shattered by 1.5 million dour northerners and the bad press they bring, and I think that many of them resent northerners trying to 'muscle in' in their well crafted sales patch.

Most people in the north have only become aware of this in recent times. I think that is because our attention is no longer as diverted by Unionists, and we have started to become more conscious of the lack of esteem in which we are held by those we always took for sympathetic allies.

I find it ironic that, at a time when the British would be supportive of a United Ireland, and many Protestants in the north are becoming much more accepting of the idea than ever before, it is our countrymen in the south who would perhaps represent the biggest obstacle to this happening. This has, of course, led to resentment and some bitterness amongst people in the north, and a clear divide between the 2 peoples has very sadly emerged.

Anyway, that is my view, and based only on personal observations.

Please explain this theory? Given how they wont let scotland even go!

God i need something to cheer me up on yet another monday morning without a job.

**Parouisa** Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:59 am

Wasn't Peter at the McKenna Cup final? Lucky he didn't go to Portlaoise yesterday week! affraid

**North Side Gael** Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:04 am

Parouisa wrote:Wasn't Peter at the McKenna Cup final? Lucky he didn't go to Portlaoise yesterday week!

He still couldnt make it into the ground on time to stand to the anthem which represents hundreds of thousands in the north where he serves as first minister under an agreement which included parity of esteem for flags emblems culture etc.

**Thomas Clarke** Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:04 am

Parouisa wrote:Wasn't Peter at the McKenna Cup final?

He was indeed, and great to see him there. Things have come a long way in the last 15-20 years.

**Parouisa** Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:11 am

Thomas Clarke wrote:
Parouisa wrote:Wasn't Peter at the McKenna Cup final?

He was indeed, and great to see him there. Things have come a long way in the last 15-20 years.

He could be Tyrone's lucky mascot - he has never seen them lose!! Very Happy

Incidentally the brother met Bernard Brogan and a few of the lads in the Sunnybank a few days after the final.

'This is me lucky Dublin shirt' says the brother to Bernard. 'We've never lost when I have worn it!'

'Seriously?' says Bernard - 'tha's great. How long have you had it?'

'Bought it yesterday' says the brother - Bernard had a good laugh ....

**North Side Gael** Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:12 am

Thomas Clarke wrote:
Parouisa wrote:Wasn't Peter at the McKenna Cup final?

He was indeed, and great to see him there. Things have come a long way in the last 15-20 years.

Still cant stand to the Irish national anthem too, shame he hasnt come a bit further, might even vote for him if he did that!

**Thomas Clarke** Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:16 am

North Side Gael wrote: Still cant stand to the Irish national anthem too, shame he hasnt come a bit further, might even vote for him if he did that!

NSG, I think this was an occasion to see the good in, rather than criticising everything. You moan about no progress being made and then, when we do see progress, you moan that it isn't enough. What did you want the man to do? Drape himself in a tricolour during the anthem? He is a staunch unionist - the fact he was there is enough for one day.

**Parouisa** Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:16 am

North Side Gael wrote:shame he hasnt come a bit further, might even vote for him if he did that!

He's lost it now!!!! North South divide .... 654413

**North Side Gael** Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:26 am

Thomas Clarke wrote:
North Side Gael wrote: Still cant stand to the Irish national anthem too, shame he hasnt come a bit further, might even vote for him if he did that!

NSG, I think this was an occasion to see the good in, rather than criticising everything. You moan about no progress being made and then, when we do see progress, you moan that it isn't enough. What did you want the man to do? Drape himself in a tricolour during the anthem? He is a staunch unionist - the fact he was there is enough for one day.

What was good? poots attended a game last year, its more symbolic cr*p, the shinners will want us to give up the anthem at matches next so we can keep the unionists happy!

He is suppose to be representative of everyone, its evidence yet again they have no respect for our irishness. I look through the superficial cr*p put on display dailly as here we have a man making a token gesture to our culture while today he will actively oppose the irish language act in stormont, says slightly more about the man than attending a gaa game.

**Thomas Clarke** Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:32 am

You're right NSG, it is just another trick to make people think that things are changing. Maybe he wasn't really at the game at all, and it was just an imposter. How foolish of me to have imagined that there has been substantial progress in the last 20 years, and that Saturday night was just another example of it. Rolling Eyes

**North Side Gael** Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:35 am

Well you tell me how vital that move was in electioneering? Then tell me how vital it is that the press keep quiet the fact that the unionist veto blocks the irish language act?

Foolish isnt a term woth joking over in real politics!

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