Seán Purcell...Truly the greatest of all time.....Discuss...

**Boxtyeater** Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:01 pm

Surely, this is the greatest man to ever pull/put on a boot.....I've seen "The Master" soar over lads bigger and hardier than himself, Kevin Coffey, Gerry O'Malley andf even Josie Murray...
I have seen him rervert from the 11 slot to the 3/6 positions with custom like efficiency....

Seán Purcell is greatest of them,'alll..

**Loyal2TheRoyal** Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:12 pm

I like this type of thread!

It's fascinating to read about these greats from a different era.

Purcell is obviously one of the greats, he is usually one of the first mentioned when greatest Gaelic Footballer is the topic. The best, well that, I don't know.

Is this how history will view the decades?
1940s - John Joe O'Reilly, Honourable Mention - Tommy Murphy
1950s - Sean Purcell, Honourable Mention - Kevin Heffernan (???)
1960s - Mick O'Connell, Honourable Mention - Sean O'Neill
1970s - Jack O'Shea, Honourable Mentions - Mikey Sheehy and Pat Spillane
1980s - Matt Connor, Honourable Mention - ?????
1990s - Maurice Fitzgerald, Honourable Mention - Peter Canavan
2000s - Colm Cooper, Honourable Mention - ?????
2010s - Bernard Brogan (?????)

**OMAR** Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:30 pm

Surely one of the greats

Difficult to benchmark across the eras - different style of football - dominance of different teams - Fitness levels
standards within the provinces and many more variables
Loyals post is probably the only way it can be done as the player of that era can at least be benchmarked against his peers from that era - and even then it is open to argument where players cross decades - Sheehy, O Shea and Spillane didn't exactly have a bad deacde in the eighties either - clearly the one beyond dispute is Gooch as player of the Noughties and whilst BB is certainly emreging as one of the top half dozen players in the country - Gooch still has vision, timing and natural ability that we may never see again - A notable ommission from his nineties selection is Trevor Giles who would come a close third to the two names selected.

Otherwise we then get into the whole agrument about greatness and best - accomplishment versus ability which brings in arguments and debates for the likes of Frank McGuigan.

**Grenvile** Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:00 pm

I would still consider Gooch ahead of BB for the great player of the 2010's era at this early stage. There's more to come from BB but at this point Gooch is still ahead for me.

**Boxtyeater** Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:19 pm

While both respondants are online and have made salient and well enunciated points, there is nobody that could ever come near the genius of Purcell.
I can take onboard the qualities of some mentioned figures, mainly forwards and all worthy nominees, but Purcell was exceptional. This was a guy who by his powerhouse approach, could make it happen..
In a nutshell, on a bad day, he could do the "fetch and carry" role, grafting back beyond midfield, winning ball and finding his man up front..
Purcell was a great team player, not overly big physically, but a big presence on the field..Not a mé feiner either, an honest, talented all rounder...

Boxty remembers like yesterday, the S/F of 59' when a superb Kerry diamond, (O'Connell, O'Dwyer at 7, Coffey and Sean Murphy) swamped the great Galway forward line....In my minds eye, I can still recall O'Connell destroying Frank Eivers at midfield, at a time when even Purcell couldn't wrestle it back....

**Jayo Cluxton** Sat Jun 25, 2011 12:04 am

Ah, the classic case of a syndrome not unlike Stockholm Syndrome. A situation where the sufferer imagines great events and people from the past - and in worst cases imagine they were at these events - when if fact they never happened at all. Or happened at a much less exalted level than the picture painted by the sufferer. Psychologists have noted the prevalence of this illness among sports fans and have in fact linked it to the grass is always greener theory – hence the sporting allusion – and illusion.

It is a symptom similar to Stockholm’s as it elevates the hero status of the ordinary sportsperson of the past who captivated the sufferer. The sufferer – usually elderly – will latch onto a sportstar of their youth and deify them – sometimes fantasing and indeed harnessing their own sporting desires and dreams as a youth through the hero – thus we are left with a fantasy recollection and a gross exaggeration of deeds that may, or may not, have even happened.

Where no actual proof exists (TV, video etc) the deeds of the hero assume mythical\proportions in the eyes of the affected. They will have ran faster jumped higher and kicked longer than anyone else. But modern records kept in international sport (eg Olympics) show that in fact the heroes of the past did not run faster or jump higher or kick longer. In fact even the ‘ordinary’ sportsperson of today surpasses the deeds of previous heroes.

The condition is known as Fenagh Syndome – after the first and most celebrated sufferer of the disease. Obviously it is not a terminal disease (thankfully) and the first man diagnosed with it still lives. However the condition does worsen with age and it is not unusual for the football hero, for example, to also become (in the eyes of the sufferer) the same man who was first on the moon, performed the first heart surgery, delivered first test tube baby etc.

**Boxtyeater** Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:58 am

Jayo Cluxton wrote:Ah, the classic case of a syndrome not unlike Stockholm Syndrome. A situation where the sufferer imagines great events and people from the past - and in worst cases imagine they were at these events - when if fact they never happened at all. Or happened at a much less exalted level than the picture painted by the sufferer. Psychologists have noted the prevalence of this illness among sports fans and have in fact linked it to the grass is always greener theory – hence the sporting allusion – and illusion.

It is a symptom similar to Stockholm’s as it elevates the hero status of the ordinary sportsperson of the past who captivated the sufferer. The sufferer – usually elderly – will latch onto a sportstar of their youth and deify them – sometimes fantasing and indeed harnessing their own sporting desires and dreams as a youth through the hero – thus we are left with a fantasy recollection and a gross exaggeration of deeds that may, or may not, have even happened.

Where no actual proof exists (TV, video etc) the deeds of the hero assume mythical\proportions in the eyes of the affected. They will have ran faster jumped higher and kicked longer than anyone else. But modern records kept in international sport (eg Olympics) show that in fact the heroes of the past did not run faster or jump higher or kick longer. In fact even the ‘ordinary’ sportsperson of today surpasses the deeds of previous heroes.

The condition is known as Fenagh Syndome – after the first and most celebrated sufferer of the disease. Obviously it is not a terminal disease (thankfully) and the first man diagnosed with it still lives. However the condition does worsen with age and it is not unusual for the football hero, for example, to also become (in the eyes of the sufferer) the same man who was first on the moon, performed the first heart surgery, delivered first test tube baby etc.

Should you wish to plagiarise some twat from your apparent vast reserve of "put downers" you'll find yourself one day trouserless......
Keep your verbosity for those whom might appreciate it.....Purcell is/was/maybe the Greatest of all time.....**

**Stick your attempts at Joycean utterances to a minimum...We are alll aware you're a Spoofer..

**Boxtyeater** Sat Jun 25, 2011 3:51 pm

I would have huge time for Maurice Fitz, Canavan, Gooch, Matt Conner et al, but they could only work with the wherewithall.....balls in, space created etc.,

Laudable as their exploits are, they lack/ed the presence and the impact that Purcell exuded......

His shoes funnily enough, were size 7...

**Jayo Cluxton** Sat Jun 25, 2011 7:17 pm

Boxtyeater wrote:Should you wish to plagiarise some twat from your apparent vast reserve of "put downers" you'll find yourself one day trouserless......
Keep your verbosity for those whom might appreciate it.....Purcell is/was/maybe the Greatest of all time.....**

**Stick your attempts at Joycean utterances to a minimum...We are alll aware you're a Spoofer..

[/quote]

G'way outta that .... ya love it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Razz

**Boxtyeater** Sun Jun 26, 2011 12:58 am

Funningly enough, I mind Purcell retreating to full back, at a Connacht final day agin' Mayo, in the late 50's in the old ground in Roscommon..

Purcell was exemplary, the man for all occasions, fetcher,carringy and finishing.......

His sidekick, Frank Stockwell, under an alias, won a county final for Mohill back in the day....

**patrique** Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:15 am

Purcell, could play defence or forward, but a few have managed that. Raymond Smith raved about him, but still preferred O'Connell.I never actually saw Purcell, but I did see O'Connell and as a pure footballer he was wonderful, but he did struggle when the going got rough. Not out of fear, it always appeared to be disdain that people should have to resort to such basics on a football field.

Jacko certainly had many of the qualities Boxty describes in Purcell and was a colossus, but for me Spillane was the real star of that Kerry wonder team, and they had many stars. Spillane was a Brian Dooher worker but a natural scorer as well. I know dooher has scored a few wondrous points, but Spillane was different class.

Canavan could win his own ball despite his size and was a brilliant player. Maurice Fitz was more of a Mick O'Connell type, pure footballer, and the like of Tohill, who could fetch, catch and carry, could have outshone him on certain days.

Gooch is a marvellous scorer and distributor.

So Purcell, going by the written word is well up there, but after a lot of thought the best I have seen........Spillane.

**Loyal2TheRoyal** Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:48 am

**Thomas Clarke** Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:57 am

OMAR wrote:Anyone hear Liam Hayes on Off the Ball Last Night ?
He is still maintaining his Gooch wouldn't lace Colm O Rourkes boots stance
Gave Gooch 7/10 for Sundays game -
He doesn't score enough from play,
He doesn't beat his man and kick long range points
The Mayo Defending for the goal was like a bunch of ten year olds
The ball he fielded on the 30 minute mark was uncontested

Embarassing in reality - There is a point at which you just have to stop digging.

Hayes has little clue about the game (cue Patrique saying that he was the only pundit to predict Tyrone winning in 2008 - even a clock is right twice a day, Pat).

However, I do think that a lot of people are a bit too quick to anoint the Gooch the greatest player that we have seen. In the last 40 years, I would have him behind Jack O'Shea, Pat Spillane and Peter Canavan, but probably a bit ahead of Matt Connor and Mikey Sheehy. I wouldn't consider anyone else in in such a debate.

One of the very best, certainly, and probably would make corner forward in an all-time selection, but not the greatest of all, in my opinion.

**Jayo Cluxton** Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:59 am

It's all about opinions but as I said elsewhere he is probably the best I have seen - and he's still only 28. What he brings to that team is phenomenal.

**Jayo Cluxton** Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:06 pm

In terms of All Stars he will surely gain his 7th this year moving him alongside Sheehy and only 2 behind Spillane.

On that subject Henry likely to move on to 10 and become the most dfecorated hurler of all time - Tommy W could move to 9 too.

9 awards - Pat Spillane of Kerry in football, D.J. Carey of (Kilkenny), Henry Shefflin (Kilkenny) in hurling
8 awards - Tommy Walsh (Kilkenny) in hurling.
7 awards - Mikey Sheehy (Kerry) in football, Noel Skehan (Kilkenny) in hurling
6 awards - Peter Canavan (Tyrone), Jack O'Shea (Kerry) , Ger Power,(Kerry), Colm Cooper (Kerry) in football, Joe McKenna (Limerick), Nicky English, (Tipperary) , Eoin Kelly (Tipperary) in hurling

**Thomas Clarke** Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:12 pm

I don't think that Spillane's 9 will ever be equalled by a footballer, including Gooch.

I think as we move into a more competitive era of football, no side will have the dominance that O'Dwyer's Kerry team had, and we know that all-stars normally go to all-ireland finalists. The commitment and time demands placed on players nowadays will also lead to shorter careers for most. Hurling is a bit different, as there is not the same spread of competition, so it is more likely that some hurlers will reach double figures.

**Loyal2TheRoyal** Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:21 pm

Thomas Clarke wrote:
OMAR wrote:Anyone hear Liam Hayes on Off the Ball Last Night ?
He is still maintaining his Gooch wouldn't lace Colm O Rourkes boots stance
Gave Gooch 7/10 for Sundays game -
He doesn't score enough from play,
He doesn't beat his man and kick long range points
The Mayo Defending for the goal was like a bunch of ten year olds
The ball he fielded on the 30 minute mark was uncontested

Embarassing in reality - There is a point at which you just have to stop digging.

Hayes has little clue about the game (cue Patrique saying that he was the only pundit to predict Tyrone winning in 2008 - even a clock is right twice a day, Pat).

However, I do think that a lot of people are a bit too quick to anoint the Gooch the greatest player that we have seen. In the last 40 years, I would have him behind Jack O'Shea, Pat Spillane and Peter Canavan, but probably a bit ahead of Matt Connor and Mikey Sheehy. I wouldn't consider anyone else in in such a debate.

One of the very best, certainly, and probably would make corner forward in an all-time selection, but not the greatest of all, in my opinion.

I would say Cooper is the best.

Only players who possessed the kind of genius Cooper has were Maurice Fitzgerald and Ciaran McDonald but Gooch beats those on consistency.

The players mentioned by Thomas were probably the best in their eras - I did not see them so I'm not going to argue with consensus.

Then it's maybe a question of when football was hardest?

I don't know but I'm going to say my top 3:
1. Colm Cooper
2. Maurice Fitzgerald
3. Ciaran McDonald

**Thomas Clarke** Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:27 pm

Just in case he isn't a regular poster on this forum, here is Colm Keys' view on things....

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

(from today's Independent)

**Jayo Cluxton** Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:32 pm

Thomas Clarke wrote:Just in case he isn't a regular poster on this forum, here is Colm Keys' view on things....

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

(from today's Independent)

That's that settled so .....

**Thomas Clarke** Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:57 pm

Jayo Cluxton wrote:
Thomas Clarke wrote:Just in case he isn't a regular poster on this forum, here is Colm Keys' view on things....

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

(from today's Independent)

That's that settled so .....

Good to see Jayo contributing to the debate. If we had more than half a dozen posters on here, there mightn't be the need to fire in a journalist's view to stimulate discussion.

**Grenvile** Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:58 pm

The best I have seen.. If I squinted at the TV on Sunday I could almost imagine that he was wearing a Cavan jersey... Razz

TC do you not think it possible that the Gooch, now well in for an All Star this year, could gain 2 more to level with Spillane in the 5 odd years he has left in the game?

**Thomas Clarke** Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:01 pm

Jonsmith wrote:TC do you not think it possible that the Gooch, now well in for an All Star this year, could gain 2 more to level with Spillane in the 5 odd years he has left in the game?

Possible, but I think it is unlikely. I still believe that this Kerry side is virtually finished, and there for the taking in the all-ireland final. Whatever about this year, Gooch's days of regularly appearing in all-ireland finals are, in my opinion, over. He could still win all-stars, but the odds are against you if your side doesn't make at least a final. You could also throw in the increased risk of injury as you get older.

On that basis, I think he is unlikely to equal Spillane.

**Grenvile** Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:10 pm

I would think he has a great chance of equaling it but I still think Kerry will be contesting Semi Finals and Finals for a few years yet which would be enough to have him in the mix for All Star awards should he keep up his performance levels. Time will tell.

**OMAR** Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:15 pm

As a follow on from the Indo article - Its fair to say that greatness may often correlate to the publics memories of Heroic exploits - or a sinlge moment on the biggest day, rather than the ability and talent demonstrated in the other 400 odd minutes of championship football that preceed an AI final not to mention the league.

Gooch has his two defeats to Tyrone and then a few AI titles against Cork, Mayo etc that don't stay in the memory mainly by virtue of the fact that he didn;t have to grab a game by the collar because KErry were home and hosed after throw in. His goal against Mayo in 2004 being the only vivid memory that I can recollect. Spillane scoring against Tyrone - or Liston against Dublin - or Sheehy against Paddy Cullen or Canavan against Kerry where all moments that possibly decided the destination of Sam that September and maybe that is why Gooch is not ranked higher.

DJ carey was a similar case - Despite bursting a chain of destruction in Leinster he had a few low key AI finals until the twilight of his career.

But for Gooch it will only take one moment and it will come.

**Jayo Cluxton** Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:32 pm

In truth Kerry have had quite an easy C'ship to date. Mayo for all the huffing and puffing ... were Mayo. I think they are hugely suspect at the back. As I said before Marc O'Sé was embarrassed on Sunday, Tom O'Sullivan is limited, Brosnan and O'Mahony too. Sheehan and Maher are not midfielders and will be found out.

The strength in Kerry is their forwards. Even though Donaghy, Darren and Declan O'Sullivan were all relatively quiet on Sunday they still hit 1-20. When they move through the gears they are unstoppable. You will score plenty against them but, more often than not, concede more!

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Seán Purcell...Truly the greatest of all time.....Discuss...

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