Intermediate Hurling Championship

Who knows much about this? Does it generate much interest?

Would it be the place for teams like westmeath, kerry and down to go to ply their trade before stepping up to the mark of the senior game? Should this be the second tier? should the intermediate teams come into the NHL so that div 2 would be more competitive?

Im just thinking out loud here but let me know what yous think? I think it could help improve teams, for example if clare are in div 2 and have an intermediate team let them into div 3, this could only help hurling in the weaker counties could it not?

Seems like the limerick cork intermediate game was a much better game than the senior one which is why i ask!

This used to be for the big counties second teams, and then counties like Antrim, Kildare and Kerry had their first team in it.

When antrim won it in 1970 it was Antrim's 1st team, and they beat Warwick in the final. They had however beaten Cork in the home final.

Imagine Antrim playing Kilkenny 2nds now? Some side the Cats could put out, and imagine Antrim winning.

that's what it used to be like. Like the "reserve" championship with a few other teams.

Might be better than Christy Ring if you are up agin better players.

thats exactly what i was thinking pat, maybe something the gaa should look at, could only stand to improve counties mentioned in my previous post and others!

Lot of pros and cons on this subject NSG
Cons start with
Mickey mouse stuff to hold up Club competition, Wexford v KK are usually all that enter in Leinster and we have club games put off for a competition no one knows about or cares about.
KK intermediate WOULD NOT be its second team or even its third team, they are only allowed to use players from intermediate clubs and lower as are Cork, Tipp, Galway and Dublin(nearly sure because of playing base) all other counties can pull from senior clubs
How important are these competitions and should we have a AI for a junior zz team now?
What benefit are you on about most of the time these lads are only just brought together at the last minute contrary to most reports.

Pros
There are none, stupid comps that glutter and already gluttered intercounty calender that gives feck all considerations to the club player.
Get rid of them all they are is an expense on county boards they woulb be more in line having an U23 championship and building towards the future instead of getting a **** load of lads 30 plus who never made it at inter county level but were good club players clog up the whole fixture list.

Sorry NSG one for the BIN

JimWexford wrote:Lot of pros and cons on this subject NSG
Cons start with
Mickey mouse stuff to hold up Club competition, Wexford v KK are usually all that enter in Leinster and we have club games put off for a competition no one knows about or cares about.
KK intermediate WOULD NOT be its second team or even its third team, they are only allowed to use players from intermediate clubs and lower as are Cork, Tipp, Galway and Dublin(nearly sure because of playing base) all other counties can pull from senior clubs
How important are these competitions and should we have a AI for a junior zz team now?
What benefit are you on about most of the time these lads are only just brought together at the last minute contrary to most reports.

Pros
There are none, stupid comps that glutter and already gluttered intercounty calender that gives feck all considerations to the club player.
Get rid of them all they are is an expense on county boards they woulb be more in line having an U23 championship and building towards the future instead of getting a **** load of lads 30 plus who never made it at inter county level but were good club players clog up the whole fixture list.

Sorry NSG one for the BIN

Brilliant Jim, give the man hope then snatch it away with a damning verdict!!

Jim thanks for your more than positive as always response i enjoyed reading it, however the hurling elite in which i include your own county owe it to the weaker hurling counties to bring their game on!

Lets face facts regardless of your view on this the competition will still be played so rather than look on it in a negative light turn it into something that is good for hurling, the christy ring still is half full of teams which will rip the other half apart on their day, so why not move them into this competition and make it slightly more competitive for these teams and their supporters! Im sure derry or down or mayo men would prefer to watch their county tackle cork or wexford once every two weeks rather than wicklow, sligo etc no offence to these counties as the names could be reversed here!

What do you think?

I reckon we should look at having more teams playing for the Liam McCarthy. While some would get hidings off the stronger hurling counties they can only get better. We can just look at Laois to see how they are improving, I remember Galway beating them by 25+ points a few years ago I don't think they would do that now. Counties in hurling should be given a chance to play against the top teams just like in football.

I would agree clash except anyone who even brings up making up the liam mccarthy to 16 teams and upsetting the current format has been slated so i can only imagine the response to 32 teams!

Personally i would make it what you have said with group stages maybe two levels like european rugby!

This would give teams the chance to really shift it up a gear, teams will get hammerings no matter what the sport and we will always have dominant and weak teams however if we bring about a proper format which allows teams to get a shot at the top this may help improve the likes of fermanagh and longford at the bottom it will help mayo and armagh in the middle too!

I've made this point on here before but does the hurling development arguement not just go round in a big circle all the time?

"Everyone should be given a chance for Liam"
...
Everyone is given a chance and weaker teams get hammered
...
"Getting beat like that doesn't benefit anyone"
...
Competition tiers are introduced
...
"Everyone should be given a chance for Liam"
...

North Side Gael wrote:Jim thanks for your more than positive as always response i enjoyed reading it, however the hurling elite in which i include your own county owe it to the weaker hurling counties to bring their game on!

Lets face facts regardless of your view on this the competition will still be played so rather than look on it in a negative light turn it into something that is good for hurling, the christy ring still is half full of teams which will rip the other half apart on their day, so why not move them into this competition and make it slightly more competitive for these teams and their supporters! Im sure derry or down or mayo men would prefer to watch their county tackle cork or wexford once every two weeks rather than wicklow, sligo etc no offence to these counties as the names could be reversed here!

What do you think?

First line a bit uncalled for as I have supported you in the past and given advice but when someone is on the other side of the fence (and knowing a bit more about the subject matter) you resort to satire- are you the new Moss.
Second point answered below.
That my friend is bollox, it is up to each county to look after themselves and bring themselves on, there is no onus an any county to help another we are all in it to win. That is why county boards spend vast sums in bringing in a new messiah every 2/3 years.
I did offer an alternative U23 which ye all by passed, as I pointed out the intermediate is taken up by 30 year plus has beens.
Another point which you ignored possibly because of lack of information on the subject is that these teams ARE NOT second or third string teams in your "strong counties" they are taken from junior and intermediate ranks and not senior clubs.
KK beat Wexford by 9 points in the Leinster semi with a 4th string don't know if that does anyone any good to be beaten by a 4th string team.

These comps only eat into an already diminishing club calender, you want better players
two things make that
Play in better conditions (fine weather instead of slop)
Have a better club championship and sorry that is one thing we can all work towards in our own county.

JimWexford wrote:

North Side Gael wrote:Jim thanks for your more than positive as always response i enjoyed reading it, however the hurling elite in which i include your own county owe it to the weaker hurling counties to bring their game on!

Lets face facts regardless of your view on this the competition will still be played so rather than look on it in a negative light turn it into something that is good for hurling, the christy ring still is half full of teams which will rip the other half apart on their day, so why not move them into this competition and make it slightly more competitive for these teams and their supporters! Im sure derry or down or mayo men would prefer to watch their county tackle cork or wexford once every two weeks rather than wicklow, sligo etc no offence to these counties as the names could be reversed here!

What do you think?

First line a bit uncalled for as I have supported you in the past and given advice but when someone is on the other side of the fence (and knowing a bit more about the subject matter) you resort to satire- are you the new Moss.
Second point answered below.
That my friend is bollox, it is up to each county to look after themselves and bring themselves on, there is no onus an any county to help another we are all in it to win. That is why county boards spend vast sums in bringing in a new messiah every 2/3 years.
I did offer an alternative U23 which ye all by passed, as I pointed out the intermediate is taken up by 30 year plus has beens.
Another point which you ignored possibly because of lack of information on the subject is that these teams ARE NOT second or third string teams in your "strong counties" they are taken from junior and intermediate ranks and not senior clubs.
KK beat Wexford by 9 points in the Leinster semi with a 4th string don't know if that does anyone any good to be beaten by a 4th string team.

These comps only eat into an already diminishing club calender, you want better players
two things make that
Play in better conditions (fine weather instead of slop)
Have a better club championship and sorry that is one thing we can all work towards in our own county.

No concept of satire and certainly not an opponent of Thatcherism.

well done Jim.

sorry jim for insulting you in my last message, it was more sarcasm and a response to your negativity on my post!

I believe we have had the "everything is about the club" approach previously and yes it did work 30 years ago, however, in order to SELL our sports to young ones against other sports such as rugby or soccer we then need to look at what we can market and that is county competition if it is run and marketed properly!

The club scene will always support the county scene and vice versa, however your method of one game a year knock out championship will not help anyone and when was the last time 70k showed up to a club championship game?

You need to use what the people want if we are to bring in the revenue and attract the youth, not simply go back 20 years to when the county teams where playing maybe one match a year, as this did not do anything for the weaker counties to help them promote hurling.

You say bollix about the counties have the onus on themselves, you obviously dont like the GPA scheme then? The onus is on the whole of the gaa to promote the games and get more interested and more playing, why in counties like fermanagh would we leave two clubs to go it alone, why not send in more people to try and create more clubs? This all needs looked at and you coming from a county like wexford are ignoring this meaning that hurling is not growing or getting better in these counties, we need to take a view of collective responsibility!

If we went for your approach on hurling then the two clubs in fermanagh may improve but will be extremely limited as the game is not marketed enough to youth or the fermanagh people!

No, nothing to do with the GPA, that is about players and I firmly believe the should make hay while the sun shines.
Let me put it this way.
Wexford owe Antrim nothing and DO NOT OR WILL NOT eveer have to help them
Why?
Antrim has its OWN county board who make there decisions.
Antrim/Galway to enter Leinster, that decision was made without support from most Leinster counties BUT made by other counties.
Sorry the inter-county scene is 100% dependent on a vibrant club scene not the other way around.
Marketing
You would get more to a Ballyhale V Portuma game if advertised correctly than the Leinster Hurling final.
It is up to respective counties to get there house in order and it is up to the respective counties to sack officials not doing works to progress you county. This is the real world sorry sentiment goes out the window at U12 level.
My own county are up to our necks in it BUT its up to us to turn it around I don't want KK castoffs doing there bit for my county.
The intermediate competition is a joke the AI are usually played at CLUB GROUNDS NOT EVEN MAIN county grounds, they also are not progressive.
Marketing is a thing I agree that should be explored and redefined and developed a lot more than the ad hoc **** it is given at the moment, but the powers that be are happy with the current set up.

I can see your wanting to progress hurling but trust me this competition won't all it would do is insult people, who do Wexford think they are sending a 2nd string team to play us, that WILL not draw a crowd. It will draw the die hards who go to every game irrespective of who there county is playing.
I have to admit I am growing more despondent and weary of the inter county scene as the years go by and find myself more interested in club games and underage, ther is just a refreshing honesty about them compared to the machine driven all about money and **** all do to with pride inter county scene.
That is only my opinion and as they say each to there own.

Jim a vibrant club scene is not the answer. Antrim have clubs at times who can match anyone in Ireland, hence 4 different teams in the club final and a 5th mighty close, but they do not have the all round strength due to isolation.

Hence the need for help from the strongholds.

Fair play Jim i agree with a lot of what you said but would also change some, however that is your honest opinion, go raibh maith agat mo chara.

Pat, totally agree on the isolation reason!

I think looking at senior level will not do enough to improve the standard of that counties team, they might improve a bit but not enough to be challenging for trophies. The underage structures in these counties needs to be looked at and in my opinion there is just not enough playing hurling in the so-called weaker counties for it to be possible to field a team good enough to challenge Cork, Kilkenny, Galway etc.

Right Guys I can see where your coming from now (sorry didn't take into consideration), I'I think about this a bit more and get back to you with some positive vibes
On the isolation issue, its really the counties around you that need to start promoting both games not just the one.

JimWexford wrote:Right Guys I can see where your coming from now (sorry didn't take into consideration), I'I think about this a bit more and get back to you with some positive vibes
On the isolation issue, its really the counties around you that need to start promoting both games not just the one.

Can't argue with that, especially at underage level, although honourable mention to armagh this year....