What's our Reference Point?

There has been much written recently (both here, on other boards and in the media) about the poor state of the game and how something needs to be done to address this. I'm wondering if we can come up with a picture of what the game should look like. It is only with a clear understanding of what we are aiming for that we can possibly debate potential changes.

So what is our reference point for how football should be played? Does it exist in history or is it an envisaged form of the game yet to be seen? When you think to yourself "The football is very poor this year", what are you comparing it to?

I think that this reference point has to be at least 1 year long. There are good games most years but taking a snapshot of 2 teams playing on a particular day does not accurately reflect the whole of that particular "era". So what year(s) would you refer to? The 70's? The 90's? Perhaps Patrique or Boxty (or others) can give us examples from a little further back.

But perhaps the reference point doesn't exist in history (although I doubt it) and we are talking about an "ideal" version of the game. If this is the case then perhaps people can give their opinions about what this ideal game should look like. How much different should it be to the game of the last 125 years.

If we can agree the reference point then we can start discussing ideas for rule changes that would drive the game towards the reference point. And then we'd all be happy!!

[FYI my own opinion is that the games this year have lacked something, but I am hesitant to back any major rule changes as I feel it would be a knee jerk reaction to what could potentially be only a blip. When you talk to lads who have been following the GAA for 50/60 years you start to get an idea of how much they have seen and how any one particular year is only a small part of the overall picture of the GAA.]

Up at 6.25 but will have a go at this tomorrow!

RMD agree with the post.
Obvious reference point is 125 years ago but I would use that as an example of how the started with 21 a side, the outside post (as in Aussie Rules) and if a defender put it behind it was point.
Fast forward to the 1910's Wexfords era 6 leinsters in a row the first 4 in a row.
20's Emergence of Kerry the first in a row, Liam Mc cup presented to Kildare, croke park.

and so on.
Most people use he 70's emergence of Offaly, Cork get all ireland first since 46 I think Heffos army goes on the March and a few cute hoors get there first of 8. But was the year as RMD saying that competitive.
Personally I would go for the 90's no back to back winners Meath and Down only multiple winners and they all played football.
It was before the emgence of the super fit athletic playing football, the skills where there as well as the players, maurice Fitz, Sheridan Mayo, redmond, stafford Meath, Lyons, Mccartan, McHugh and many more.
Would go for 1998

Like everything the sport has evolved over the last 125 years. The dedication of players has always remained the same and I hate to use this word but the sport is much more professional now that it ever was.

The players and fans mindset has changed that its now win at all costs which is bringing the more cynical aspects into the game.

The style of football has changed with the style of players. There is less football played as the players are so fit the can carry the ball all day long.

It a way it makes football less entertaining

Thinking of this today refernence point and I don't think you relly pick one.
The sport is evolving but is it evolving in a manner that the fans, supporters etc are happy with.
Do we take on board all the stuff been written spoken about lately 13 side etc etc.
Lets ask ourselves a few questions
1. Why are teams training 14 nights a week (exaggerated for the sake of it)
2. Why are club championships been placed on the back burner in most counties
3. Subs on county panels wht games are they getting do we need 30 on a panel
(Please note up till 10 years ago less even (97 was the stand out case a certain L Hassett) county teams were given 21 all ireland medals only Kerry always abibed by this rule)

Changes I would like to implement
1 County teams can only train twice a week tops (you can win all ireland this way proof Tyrone)
2 Get the club scene up and vibraint again (soeaking from my own county its dead at the moment).
3 County panels max 22 and only allowed carry 1 sub keeper not 2.
4 All Irelands finals played in August
5 Knockout to return, 1 shot at glory
6 bring back in the beer belly full forward couldn't run the lenght of himself but he could read a game and play the ball and score the odd free (just for the dubs)
7 Reduce admission and play more games at provincial venues.
8 Cut out all the deadwood at county board level make the f**kers that are there more accountable.
9. Look at promoting the game for itself.

I know a lot of this is general s**te but I think we need to do this first and foremost.

A lot of money is been spent just for the sake of it expenses etc and this needs to be controlled that is the first reference point ALL counties are trying to outspeand each other in their quest for glory be it provinical or all ireland.
stop the cash and get back to the real ethos of the game the honour glory and not the expenses pat on the back and getting a medal for been the assistant to the assistant of the assistant kitman.

1996-2001
Golden era for Gaelic football, with 3 counties in particular setting the standard, Galway, Meath and of course Kerry. Great players peppered these teams and many others besides, Joyce, Fitzgerald, Geraghty, Donnellan, Moinaghan, Fay, Canavan, Glen Ryan. Galway played with an open and creative style as is their want, Meath were tough and uncompromising but fair, as is their want and Kerry were just Kerry. Footballs been generally crap since these heady times.

I'd have to agree and say the reference point would be around the mid 90's. Some great teams, players and games. Meath, Down, Dublin, Mayo, Galway, Kildare, Tyrone and of course Kerry all produced quality teams in this era. I wouldn't choose a year but instead an era between maybe '94 to '98. 5 different winners, 8 different finalists and most importantly good footballing teams. I'm getting all misty-eyed thinking about it!

Some good points and posts here. I have thought about it a lot and I really don't think there is a reference point tbh.

The aim - rather than the reference point - should surely be trying to play the game to the best of your ability within the rules. We have seen some awful muck this year - some incompetent (ie bad teams - which I can bear) and some downright cynical - which I can't bear.

I think Tyrone have floated between rule bending and pure ability in the last 2/3 years and now realise that they need less rule bending because of their ability ... and are a much better team for it - in terms of their performances and watching them. And good luck to them!

The disciplinary procedure needs a complete overhaul. 30 man max panel to allow 15 a side in training. Less qualifiers, provincial final losers only allowed a second chance.

I also think the GAA and county boards needs tighter control on its accounts. County managers should not be paid 100k a year nor should 50k in cash be going missing.

Martin McHugh makes a strong case for 13 a side in todays irish daily star. Basically saying that increased fitness levels and speed has caused the game to get crowded, players have very little time on the ball, it would help cut out the crowded defence. About your earlier point of which era was best Mickey Harte made the point that the game has been evolving, there was bad games and bad teams all through history. Personally i think 2002 was the golden era of football

JimWexford wrote:RMD agree with the post.
Obvious reference point is 125 years ago but I would use that as an example of how the started with 21 a side, the outside post (as in Aussie Rules) and if a defender put it behind it was point.
Fast forward to the 1910's Wexfords era 6 leinsters in a row the first 4 in a row.
20's Emergence of Kerry the first in a row, Liam Mc cup presented to Kildare, croke park.

and so on.
Most people use he 70's emergence of Offaly, Cork get all ireland first since 46 I think Heffos army goes on the March and a few cute hoors get there first of 8. But was the year as RMD saying that competitive.
Personally I would go for the 90's no back to back winners Meath and Down only multiple winners and they all played football.
It was before the emgence of the super fit athletic playing football, the skills where there as well as the players, maurice Fitz, Sheridan Mayo, redmond, stafford Meath, Lyons, Mccartan, McHugh and many more.
Would go for 1998

id have to go for 1998 as well. it was the first year i started to understand the concept of football and i remember going to see mayo and galway in castlebar. it was a fantastic year for football.

Just thought I'd put this out there would using a football similar to a soccer ball speed up the game of football. Maybe a lighter football is the answer.

clash-of-da-ash wrote:Just thought I'd put this out there would using a football similar to a soccer ball speed up the game of football. Maybe a lighter football is the answer.

Dunno about that Clash - we might have some low scoring games - 2-1 to 3-2 kind of thing. Some players find it hard enough to score a point as it is - imagine a lighter ball!

i honestly think that the best year was 2001 or 2002 the first few years of the qualifiers, god we had some great games and we had teams who never played each other getting a crack at it, some memorable days, sligo tearing up croker, they where great days ofcourse though 2007 was a wonderfull year too