New football format - go for it!

Surely it is time to finally call time on the current football Championship format. While recognising that is has served the GAA well for 125 years the fact is that it is not equitable nor does it meet the needs of the organisation in the 2000s.

The sacred cows that are the provincial championships seem to be the main stumbling block in any revamp or restructuring. It has to be said that this is not the case in hurling. Yes the Munster Hurling Championship retains its 'sacred cow' status (possibly above any other provincial championship in either code) but the fact is that Galway or Antrim could conceivably win the Leinster C'ship - so we do not have a provincial structure in hurling.

And lets be honest here about provincial football championships. Are any of them sacred? Look at the crowds in recent years too! The backdoor has already seriously undermined the 'value' of a provincial crown. Some managers have more or less said that they consider the backdoor better than the provincial route sometimes. And teams that have not won their province have won Sam. And we already have the scenario where teams are pitted against teams from other provinces from as early as their second championship game.

We have fought for our 32 county Ireland long and hard - and 32 is ideal for sport - but we don't use it!! Yes we have NY (who don't get a second bite anyway) and London but we don't have Kilkenny, so something could be worked out.

The possibilities are endless. 8 groups of 4 (home and away games maybe? aggregate scores maybe?) or 4 groups of 8. Seeding maybe? Regionalise? It is not a big country so travel is not usually a huge problem.

But the potential for standout fixtures every weekend are endless - and decent TV coverage (they would love it!). Throw in Friday nights, maybe Mondays (compensate lads for missing work and make sure that these ties involve little travel). Heineken Cup, RaboDirect do - League of Ireland all do this. And we are talking summertime when travel is better and nights are longer.

The dates for the fixtures would be consistent across all counties in this phase and should help the clubs. The season could be defined over June and July with maybe the top 8 playing in August and September.

I think its a no-brainer and its time it happened!

Agree

Problems
Four groups of eight - too many games - "becomes a league"
Champions league format - Does anyone car about the first four/five games ?
World cup format - Leaves us with sixteen teams which is maybe where we were always going to start ?
Long summer if a top teams gets beaten in the "last 16"

Solution

NY play bottom team from D4 (other than kilkenny) in prelimanary round to reduce to 32

1. end League position determins seed - ie if you end the league staying in Division one - Top seed
or if you are demoted to Division two - become a 2nd seed - A d2 team promoted is a one seed
2. Eight groups of Four
3. Only three rounds of games - One home - one away and one Lots/Neutral
4. Top eight go through to Quarter Finals (prelimanary)
5. Second eight go to qualifiers -
6. Qualifier round 1 Eight become 4
7. Quarter final (a) winners go through to proper Quarter finals
8. Losers of QF(a) play winners of Qulaifier round
9. we now have eight teams for Q/F proper and straight knock out

If the championship becomes a league then surely people will understand that it will no longer be the championship, it would be a league and who needs another one of them. 100% against the championship becoming a league in any form.

Valid points but where would you get days like this....A much younger Boxty is visible around the 1.08 mark in this clip...

Omar - I'm not sure I'd be giving any backdoor under a league type format. Even with groups of 4 all teams are getting at least 3 games.

Parouisa wrote:Omar - I'm not sure I'd be giving any backdoor under a league type format. Even with groups of 4 all teams are getting at least 3 games.

Yep three games
But if you go for top two to qualify you have start of clean knockout with sixteen teams of which about 12 are a shoe in to start with-
so its only then that championship really starts - there would be some high enough profile knockouts
in the first round of knock out which would see a lot of teams sidelined in late June

option B) is to only have eight teams go to knock out - but if you have a Kerry/Dublin as a top seed
it might mean a short year for the no.2 seed especially of the the No.1 seed beats the No.2 seed in an early game - The rest of the games become academic.


So in consideration of both of above is why I would gp with "second chance" option
complicated but its less of a bridge from where we are which might be an easier first step.

Why don't we just get rid of the back door...?

Royal_Girl2k9 wrote:Why don't we just get rid of the back door...?

Do you think that would be good really? I'm not being funny here but it would have seen Meath having a lot of one game seasons over the last decade. Is that what you want?

Parouisa wrote:

Royal_Girl2k9 wrote:Why don't we just get rid of the back door...?

Do you think that would be good really? I'm not being funny here but it would have seen Meath having a lot of one game seasons over the last decade. Is that what you want?

Run something else for teams who get knocked out of the provincials.

Royal_Girl2k9 wrote:

Parouisa wrote:

Royal_Girl2k9 wrote:Why don't we just get rid of the back door...?

Do you think that would be good really? I'm not being funny here but it would have seen Meath having a lot of one game seasons over the last decade. Is that what you want?

Run something else for teams who get knocked out of the provincials.

So that they get back in the C'ship? Or a separate comp?

Parouisa wrote:

Royal_Girl2k9 wrote:

Parouisa wrote:

Royal_Girl2k9 wrote:Why don't we just get rid of the back door...?

Do you think that would be good really? I'm not being funny here but it would have seen Meath having a lot of one game seasons over the last decade. Is that what you want?

Run something else for teams who get knocked out of the provincials.

So that they get back in the C'ship? Or a separate comp?

Either or.

Could do something where the winner of it get to go into a quarter final- Only 1 quarter against any of the 4 provincial winners drawn at random.

Or another comp with some sort of sponsorship prize or something.

Royal_Girl2k9 wrote:

Either or.

Could do something where the winner of it get to go into a quarter final- Only 1 quarter against any of the 4 provincial winners drawn at random.

Or another comp with some sort of sponsorship prize or something.[/quote]


So the first option is a backdoor then. And believe me no player, manager, Co Board or fan would have any interest in a secondary comp.

Parouisa wrote:

Royal_Girl2k9 wrote:

Either or.

Could do something where the winner of it get to go into a quarter final- Only 1 quarter against any of the 4 provincial winners drawn at random.

Or another comp with some sort of sponsorship prize or something.

So the first option is a backdoor then. And believe me no player, manager, Co Board or fan would have any interest in a secondary comp.[/quote]

Fine then just straight knock out. Or go back to 1997-2001 system.

Boxty is irrefutably stuck in the old way....Whats new?

There's the national league, properly structured as it is to gain status...championship is knock-out...End of story.

Counties holding up fixtures to facilitate minors/club tied seniors, are ruining the game. I'm a rural clubman, albeit Intermediate, but the bollocksology attaching to county schedules is daft.

Championship, is and should be, on the day, best horse jump the ditch....

The status quo to remain.....

Option B

A knockout round 0f 32 (Division one sides play Division 4) (division two v Division three)
A straight cull to 16 teams - The Losers go into a B championship
Of the 16 remaining 4 groups of 4
three games per Group
This way no weak teams so no total walkovers so the "league format" would be interesting
Top eight go to quarter finals

little harsh on Division 4 teams who are in a for a turkey shoot - but their objective is to get to Division three
and then they will draw a number 2 seed rather than a number 1 seed.

There's a couple of different problems at the moment:
1. The provinces are not balanced
2. A straight knockout in Championship means 1 game for half the teams.

The 2 should be discussed separately IMO.
Solving the first one means getting rid of the provinces. None of this Move Longford to Connacht BS, just get rid of them. Then have 4 groups based on geography (assuming an open draw isn't the way to go) but rather than NSEW, have it NW/NE/SW/SE. That will give the following 4 groups.

Derry
Antrim
Down
Armagh
Monaghan
Cavan
Louth
Meath

Leitrim
Sligo
Roscommon
Mayo
Donegal
Tyrone
Fermanagh
Longford

Dublin
Wicklow
Wexford
Westmeath
Laois
Kildare
Kilkenny
Carlow

Clare
Galway
Kerry
Cork
Limerick
Offaly
Tipperary
Waterford

Job done!

No competition worth it's salt has every team available competing in it, they always have a tiered system and that is what we need to have with the football Championship. Having said that, of all the suggestions made here other than mine, i favour RMDs best.

I've said it before, i would tier it on the leagues and have a seeded system based on where you finish on the league table. I would like to see the format completely changed to something similar to the AFL setup.

Division 1 -
-16 teams, play each other once in a league format. Top of the league is NFL winner.
-Top 8 teams compete for the All Ireland Championship (Sam Maguire Cup)
-Championship format seeded on the final standings of the league, with the top 1 - 4 teams having a second chance and the teams finishing 5 - 8 playing knockout from the off.

1st round
(a) 1vs4, (b) 2vs3 - Winner goes on to Semi Final, loser plays winners of other ties in Elimination Playoff
(c) 5vs8, (d) 6vs7 - Loser out, winner plays the loser of Top 4 ties

Elimination Playoff
(1) Loser (a) vs Winner (d)
(2) Winner (c) vs Loser (b)

Semi-Finals
(A) Winner (2) vs Winner (a)
(B) Winner (b) vs Winner (1)

Final
(B) vs (A)

Winner - All Ireland Champions

Bottom team in league relegated to Division 2
14th and 15th in league enter Relegation PlayOff - Loser relegated to Division 2

Division 2

as Division 1 except -

-Top team in the league win Division 2 title & promotion to Division 1 for the following season
-Championship Winner wins Tommy Murphy Cup & promotion to Division 1 (if different to league winner*)
-Bottom 8 Teams play for the Bald Eagle Cup in a straight knockout**
-No kop out of refusing promotion allowed.

I feel that this would add importance to the Leagues, reward the most consistant teams of the year and in Division 1, with the Relegation Playoff it would mean less dead rubber games towards the end of the season.

There would be midweek and Friday night games in the league stage, which would be run off in 9 weeks meaning less impact on the club scene. Championship format would be played off over a 7 or 8 week period with 2 weekends rest between Semi-Finals and Final.

Upon elimination, players would be free to return to their clubs.

*if Division 2 league winner wins Tommy Murphy Cup then 2nd place in league win promotion to Division 1 although it would be open to a better option, perhaps the Top 4 side that goes furtherst in the Championship wins promotion.

**Likely no need for such a competition but i threw it in there anyway.

Let the slagging begin....

Regionality is an idea but as I said we are a small country and do you really want the same group of 8 every year? Cork Kerry group is very weak.

I like Balds idea, round robin two tier.

Have home and away fixtures, same as rugby - good for rivalary.

Top 2 into quarter finals, 2 best placed 3rd teams into 2nd tier quarter finals . Relagation play offs also in div 1 with two down two up. Tiers two would be top of of each group plus best two runners up into quarters alongside 2 Tier one teams - again just to spice it up.

If it was sponsored promoted and organised properly it could serve fit to promote the games to a brand new level.

Im forever calling for something similar in hurling and bore people with it pretty regular, good thread.

Parouisa wrote:Regionality is an idea but as I said we are a small country and do you really want the same group of 8 every year? Cork Kerry group is very weak.

Yeah, fair point. We're not that big that we couldn't cope with a draw made every year (and as was mentioned the draw could be seeded based on the league).

I would favour a Premier League format. 34 teams (incl. London and New York) each play 66 games between May 1st and September 31st meaning every team plays every other team once at home and once away.

Loyal2TheRoyal wrote:I would favour a Premier League format. 34 teams (incl. London and New York) each play 66 games between May 1st and September 31st meaning every team plays every other team once at home and once away.

Aer Lingus could sponsor it

Loyal2TheRoyal wrote:I would favour a Premier League format. 34 teams (incl. London and New York) each play 66 games between May 1st and September 31st meaning every team plays every other team once at home and once away.

Excellent proposal Loyal, well done for coming up with such a brilliant idea!