What did Tyrone bring to the table?

**Jayo Cluxton** Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:04 am

A recent lament by the ~~venereal~~ venerable TC mourns the passing of the Red Hands. A tad premature maybe but we must ask - if it is the case - will we miss them?

I propose that Tyrone and Kerry have come to the top in one of the weakest eras of Gaelic football. There are numerous players from both counties who would not lace the boots of previous All Ireland winners - especially Kerry. Consider those who won honours in the last 5 years or so against Spillane, Sheehy, Liston, Jacko - no contest. Aside from Gooch, Moynihan, the O'Sé bros and one or two others - the rest are pretty ordinary. Similarly take out O'Neill (now gone), Dooher, Canavan, Cavanagh (if they can find a place for him), Gormley and Mulligan (sporadically) and you are left with players who no-one will remember in 5 years. No legends here folks.

What Tyrone did bring was intensity all over the pitch. Sometimes it was broody, ugly, mean and downright nasty. They brought sledging to a new low, gamesmanship to the edge and bent rules til they were all but broken. They did bring a level of interchangeability not seen before (I believe), some very innovative tactical acumen from the line (now possibly jaded however) and a new face to proceedings.

For Tyrone fans it is the golden era - no doubt - but I think this recent period will be seen in the future as a particularly fallow period for the game where an horrendously negative Armagh team won a Sam and a very average Kerry team and a limited Tyrone side shared the rest of the titles. Other than Gooch I don't think any player of the first decade of this century will figure on any team of the millennium - or century even!

If they are gone - good luck to them ... but will they be remembered or missed? I doubt it very much.

**redhandman** Wed Aug 18, 2010 1:54 pm

Jayo Cluxton wrote:A recent lament by the ~~venereal~~ venerable TC mourns the passing of the Red Hands. A tad premature maybe but we must ask - if it is the case - will we miss them?

I propose that Tyrone and Kerry have come to the top in one of the weakest eras of Gaelic football. There are numerous players from both counties who would not lace the boots of previous All Ireland winners - especially Kerry. Consider those who won honours in the last 5 years or so against Spillane, Sheehy, Liston, Jacko - no contest. Aside from Gooch, Moynihan, the O'Sé bros and one or two others - the rest are pretty ordinary. Similarly take out O'Neill (now gone), Dooher, Canavan, Cavanagh (if they can find a place for him), Gormley and Mulligan (sporadically) and you are left with players who no-one will remember in 5 years. No legends here folks.

What Tyrone did bring was intensity all over the pitch. Sometimes it was broody, ugly, mean and downright nasty. They brought sledging to a new low, gamesmanship to the edge and bent rules til they were all but broken. They did bring a level of interchangeability not seen before (I believe), some very innovative tactical acumen from the line (now possibly jaded however) and a new face to proceedings.

For Tyrone fans it is the golden era - no doubt - but I think this recent period will be seen in the future as a particularly fallow period for the game where an horrendously negative Armagh team won a Sam and a very average Kerry team and a limited Tyrone side shared the rest of the titles. Other than Gooch I don't think any player of the first decade of this century will figure on any team of the millennium - or century even!

If they are gone - good luck to them ... but will they be remembered or missed? I doubt it very much.

JC you name 4 kerry greats from the 80's! yet 5 from this relatively poor kerry team and 6 from tyrone. you also missed cormac and brian mcguigan (cue paddys complaint!) from that list so teams that will be quickly forgotten have more memorable players than the kings of the 80's!

sledging was long on the go before tyrone started it cork meath anyone and disggraceful mutterings in the goalmouth. tyrone are victims of success oisin had a go in his book about a league match that never took place! ricey is the loveable rouge every team has one player who is a keen follower of the dark arts sure teams were at it when tyrone were niave in the ninties!

the media love a wee snipe yet has any team perfected the TEAM game as well as this group have?

**Peter Solan the Great** Wed Aug 18, 2010 1:58 pm

Your right in a sense. The Golden era for the GAA came in the 90's. I dont think the Kerry and Tyrone teams were as good as the teams in the 90's. They however were a great deal better then the football pre-90's. People have a habit of romanticising the past. In Mayo we're cock sure that the team of 50 and 51 were the best ever to grace the game but a rudementary look at footgae from that era shows that the standard was dreadful with ground football heavy tackles and hit and hope techniques evident. History is written by the victors and i'm pretty sure these Tyrone and kerry teams will be feted much like the Down team of the sixties and the Kerry team of the 70's.

**Thomas Clarke** Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:08 pm

Peter Solan the Great wrote: The Golden era for the GAA came in the 90's. I dont think the Kerry and Tyrone teams were as good as the teams in the 90's.

What was so good about the 90s?

**Jayo Cluxton** Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:16 pm

redhandman wrote:JC you name 4 kerry greats from the 80's! yet 5 from this relatively poor kerry team and 6 from tyrone. you also missed cormac and brian mcguigan (cue paddys complaint!) from that list so teams that will be quickly forgotten have more memorable players than the kings of the 80's!

Ah RHM I could just name about 20 from the 80s team - Ogie, Power, Egan, Doyle, Kennelly, Deenihan, the O'Keeffes, Nelligan and of course Paudi - all legends!

Brian McGuigan did not have the longevity for inclusion and sadly has not been the influence post-injuries that he was before.

**Peter Solan the Great** Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:17 pm

Thomas Clarke wrote:
Peter Solan the Great wrote: The Golden era for the GAA came in the 90's. I dont think the Kerry and Tyrone teams were as good as the teams in the 90's.

What was so good about the 90s?

Brilliant Galway,Mayo Donegal, Derry, Kildare, Dublin, Roscommon and Meath teams. Fast exciting open football. Lack of predictability each year. What is it with Tyone people and their inability to take any criticism? If it makes you fell better.

Tyrone are the best ever team to don a GAA Jersey.
They are an inspiration to GAA players everywhere.
The Tyrone team Number 1-15 will make the team of the Millinium in the year 3000
They revolusionised GAA tactics. Tactics that will in years to come be utilised by professional sports all over the world.

**Thomas Clarke** Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:29 pm

Very touchy today Peter, aren't you? I wasn't criticising, I was just curious, as I've never thought the 90s a particularly strong era. Better than the 80s certainly, but definitely not the strongest era the game has seen.

I think that you have been overly generous in your list of brilliant teams (Roscommon? Mayo? Kildare?), but I do agree that there were others, the best of which you didn't even bother to mention (Down). Galway were also brilliant for a while.

I've always thought that the 90s was an exciting era, but not necessarily that strong. Lots of different winners in any sport usually indicates a fairly level playing field, with no outstanding sides. And even beyond Tyrone & Kerry, the 00s can compare with most decades, with a very fine Armagh side challenging for several years, and Galway hitting impressive heights early in the decade.

For me the '00s were a stronger footballing decade than the 90s, albeit not as exciting. In terms of breakthroughs, great players, iconic teams, the 50s would be my pick of the bunch.

Now Peter, take a deep breath, and respond properly, if you wish to, rather than going off on some nonsensical rant about Tyrone...

**Real Kerry Fan** Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:47 pm

Peter Solan the Great wrote:
Thomas Clarke wrote:
Peter Solan the Great wrote: The Golden era for the GAA came in the 90's. I dont think the Kerry and Tyrone teams were as good as the teams in the 90's.

What was so good about the 90s?

Brilliant Galway,Mayo Donegal, Derry, Kildare, Dublin, Roscommon and Meath teams. Fast exciting open football. Lack of predictability each year. What is it with Tyone people and their inability to take any criticism? If it makes you fell better.

Tyrone are the best ever team to don a GAA Jersey.
They are an inspiration to GAA players everywhere.
The Tyrone team Number 1-15 will make the team of the Millinium in the year 3000
They revolusionised GAA tactics. Tactics that will in years to come be utilised by professional sports all over the world.

I cannot agree. Galway,one good year,Donegal,Derry all had one good year and vanished the following year. Mayo? Remember they were beaten by Kerry in 1997 which was not rated as one of the better Kerry teams.Kildare handpassed from one end to the other of the field(Micko admitted he did'nt have thet quality players to play otherwise)Roscommon????,Meath? Two All Irelands, should have been one as Mayo blew it in 1996(Not a great Mayo) team.Dublin were above average but not great.Down were probably the best team of the 90's. Galway did show up again in 2001 but otherwise to say the 90's was a superior decade is a bit off track. Now that Tyrone and Kerry are out does not mean that the football has improved. It may in the eyes of those outside the two counties as sometimes change can give the impression of improvement.

**Grenvile** Wed Aug 18, 2010 3:30 pm

For me what Tyrone brought was more simplistic. They brought a fight to the closing stages of the Championship that no other team could. They showed absolutely no fear of a great Kerry team in stark contrast to Mayo and Cork who turned several finals of the 00s into non events.

**JimWexford** Wed Aug 18, 2010 3:30 pm

It may in the eyes of those outside the two counties as sometimes change can give the impression of improvement.

Real Kerry Fan I will give you that, sensible statement.
Change does it mean brilliance or a lowering of the standards.
Hard one to call.
We see after the next 4 weeks if the change has been good / bad/ or just expected

**Thomas Clarke** Wed Aug 18, 2010 3:42 pm

JimWexford wrote:It may in the eyes of those outside the two counties as sometimes change can give the impression of improvement.

Real Kerry Fan I will give you that, sensible statement.
Change does it mean brilliance or a lowering of the standards.
Hard one to call.
We see after the next 4 weeks if the change has been good / bad/ or just expected

I'd agree with Jim & RKF on this one.

When great sides come to the end of the line, it is normally them dropping back into the pack, rather than the pack improving and catching them. This is what is currently happening with Down, Kildare etc making the semi's. The field has levelled out, and the 2 great sides of the era are gone. In all likelihood we will see several different winners over the next 5 years, just as we did in the 90s.

Multiple different winners equals excitement, but rarely indicates extremely high standards.

**whiterbananas** Thu Aug 19, 2010 5:33 pm

What did Tyrone bring to the table?

Diving.......cheating........mouthing.........off the ball fouling.........time wasting..........ryan mcmenamin..........

Will they be missed? Ehhhh no!!

**mullins** Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:08 pm

The next All -Ireland Tyrone win, will be bigger than 03...What did they bring to the Gaa since 03 who knows...

**mullins** Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:46 pm

I often though about the Tyrone moaning about Paddy Russell after 95 justified or not..But recently i started thinking who was the ref in 05 ,that handed them a handy winning free in the last minuite to knock Armagh out of the championship in 05...To my surprise who was it only the one and only Paddy Russell makes you wonder really..Never hear any Tyrone fans thanking Paddy for that one... :affraid: affraid

**bocerty** Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:38 pm

mullins wrote:I often though about the Tyrone moaning about Paddy Russell after 95 justified or not..But recently i started thinking who was the ref in 05 ,that handed them a handy winning free in the last minuite to knock Armagh out of the championship in 05...To my surprise who was it only the one and only Paddy Russell makes you wonder really..Never hear any Tyrone fans thanking Paddy for that one... :affraid:

i would suggest you look at that one again Mullins - McKeever committed a foul at a time and in an area were he had no need to foul, we had little chance of scoring from that area, had he stood his ground he more than likely would have forced Tyrone back rather than handing them the free.

I for one bear no bitterness towards Russell he got a decision wrong but he didnt have the benefit of all the replays we have had since, also had the shoe been on the other foot you can rest assured Dubs all over the land would still be whinging about it so make it out to be a Tyrone thing

**bocerty** Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:44 pm

They brought sledging to a new low

rubbish statement Jayo - sledging was well and truly alive and kicking before Tyrone got involved, not for on minute saying we were saints but to throw that accusation is a tad disingenuous

**Jayo Cluxton** Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:03 pm

bocerty wrote:They brought sledging to a new low

rubbish statement Jayo - sledging was well and truly alive and kicking before Tyrone got involved, not for on minute saying we were saints but to throw that accusation is a tad disingenuous

**scoopmine** Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:26 pm

Tyrone have made themselfs legends coming from a county with little or no success...
Building from the bottom up and offering a blueprint to every other county...
They bought an arrogance and a swagger to match kerry or any other team..
Bought some ugly traits but what winning team is 100 percent in the right every time iv never seen one..
If cavan had the same success with the same methods I would be delighted!

**OMAR** Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:27 pm

mullins wrote:I often though about the Tyrone moaning about Paddy Russell after 95 justified or not..But recently i started thinking who was the ref in 05 ,that handed them a handy winning free in the last minuite to knock Armagh out of the championship in 05...To my surprise who was it only the one and only Paddy Russell makes you wonder really..Never hear any Tyrone fans thanking Paddy for that one... :affraid:

I had €50 on a draw at 9/1

**mullins** Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:28 pm

bocerty wrote:
mullins wrote:I often though about the Tyrone moaning about Paddy Russell after 95 justified or not..But recently i started thinking who was the ref in 05 ,that handed them a handy winning free in the last minuite to knock Armagh out of the championship in 05...To my surprise who was it only the one and only Paddy Russell makes you wonder really..Never hear any Tyrone fans thanking Paddy for that one... :affraid:

i would suggest you look at that one again Mullins - McKeever committed a foul at a time and in an area were he had no need to foul, we had little chance of scoring from that area, had he stood his ground he more than likely would have forced Tyrone back rather than handing them the free.

I for one bear no bitterness towards Russell he got a decision wrong but he didnt have the benefit of all the replays we have had since, also had the shoe been on the other foot you can rest assured Dubs all over the land would still be whinging about it so make it out to be a Tyrone thing

Bocerty all im saying is things even out over time ,i would expect you to say free in, wonder would Armagh supporters agree with you.

Question

Did Mulligan foul the ball in 05 v Dublin for his goal..

**mullins** Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:30 pm

OMAR wrote:
mullins wrote:I often though about the Tyrone moaning about Paddy Russell after 95 justified or not..But recently i started thinking who was the ref in 05 ,that handed them a handy winning free in the last minuite to knock Armagh out of the championship in 05...To my surprise who was it only the one and only Paddy Russell makes you wonder really..Never hear any Tyrone fans thanking Paddy for that one... :affraid:

I had €50 on a draw at 9/1

you were Robbed.. Smile

**OMAR** Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:06 pm

mullins wrote:
bocerty wrote:
mullins wrote:I often though about the Tyrone moaning about Paddy Russell after 95 justified or not..But recently i started thinking who was the ref in 05 ,that handed them a handy winning free in the last minuite to knock Armagh out of the championship in 05...To my surprise who was it only the one and only Paddy Russell makes you wonder really..Never hear any Tyrone fans thanking Paddy for that one... :affraid:

i would suggest you look at that one again Mullins - McKeever committed a foul at a time and in an area were he had no need to foul, we had little chance of scoring from that area, had he stood his ground he more than likely would have forced Tyrone back rather than handing them the free.

I for one bear no bitterness towards Russell he got a decision wrong but he didnt have the benefit of all the replays we have had since, also had the shoe been on the other foot you can rest assured Dubs all over the land would still be whinging about it so make it out to be a Tyrone thing

Bocerty all im saying is things even out over time ,i would expect you to say free in, wonder would Armagh supporters agree with you.

Did Mulligan foul the ball in 05 v Dublin for his goal..

No - I had €50 on the draw that day as well

**bocerty** Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:56 pm

Jayo Cluxton wrote:
bocerty wrote:They brought sledging to a new low

rubbish statement Jayo - sledging was well and truly alive and kicking before Tyrone got involved, not for on minute saying we were saints but to throw that accusation is a tad disingenuous

sorry Jayo but i have seen much worse sledging in my time from other counties than anything Tyrone ever brought to the table - either you have amnesia or a selective memory

**Jayo Cluxton** Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:58 pm

bocerty wrote:either you have amnesia or a selective memory

both .....

**bocerty** Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:01 pm

mullins wrote:
bocerty wrote:
mullins wrote:I often though about the Tyrone moaning about Paddy Russell after 95 justified or not..But recently i started thinking who was the ref in 05 ,that handed them a handy winning free in the last minuite to knock Armagh out of the championship in 05...To my surprise who was it only the one and only Paddy Russell makes you wonder really..Never hear any Tyrone fans thanking Paddy for that one... :affraid:

i would suggest you look at that one again Mullins - McKeever committed a foul at a time and in an area were he had no need to foul, we had little chance of scoring from that area, had he stood his ground he more than likely would have forced Tyrone back rather than handing them the free.

I for one bear no bitterness towards Russell he got a decision wrong but he didnt have the benefit of all the replays we have had since, also had the shoe been on the other foot you can rest assured Dubs all over the land would still be whinging about it so make it out to be a Tyrone thing

Bocerty all im saying is things even out over time ,i would expect you to say free in, wonder would Armagh supporters agree with you.

Did Mulligan foul the ball in 05 v Dublin for his goal..

and i totally agree Mullins some days the ball rolls for you some days against you - i dont think too many Armagh people would say it wasn't a free in fact i dont think too many Armagh players complained at the time either.

Did Mulligan foul the ball? Tyrone people would say no Dubs would say yes thats no surprise surely. The penalty Cavanagh won in 05 replay looked a stone wall penalty at the time and yet the replay showed it was a bloody great tackle.

Should Whelan have been sent off more time sin his career than he actually was??? The answer would depend on who you ask and we could go on and on with more examples till you were blue in the face.

I dont however like the accusation levelled at Tyrone that they were dirtier than anything that went before them !!!!!

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