What is Football

With all this talk of blanket defence and interchangable forwards and a certain maroon county in the west only starting out in a few weeks when they have played already I ask a simple question what is the game of football.

Is it like years of old (Boxty call on you here) kick and catch that made it beautiful but remember the players were no way near as fit and the games were 60 mins

Was it like the start off the 60's & 70's (Mr Cluxton, TC) they started to mess around with rules, 80 min finals 70 min finals back to 60 min finals, players got fitter, tactics came on board players could be substituted without having to feign injury.

The 80's the breaking of the kerry/dublin handpass stronghold by teams that could kick and run namely offaly

The 90's where we went to handball for a while at the expense of football everyone had to be athletic and run all day but not able to kick a ball -Kildare

2003 onwards interchangeable forwards and what not.

Has the enjoyment factor diminished.

have to admit I rather look at underage games now rather than adult and club way before county as the AI like the thing in SA its gone stale, boring.
Hand on heart the AI is really between 3 team Cork, Kerry and Tyrone, it is for them to lose not others to win so where has it gone wrong.
I haven't got a clue but it just ain't championship anymore.
The Meath team of the 80's tough competitive and could play a bit wouldn't last a game with 15 now surely that in itself should signal something is gone wrong.
Don't blame the refs they are only doing what they are told to do.
The Gaa is been run at the moment in my eyes by people that DIDN'T play and they are unfortunately making these calls/decisions about how the game should be played whilst never playing themselves to me that is the crux of the issue.
How to resolve it is a whole new bag of fish (or moss in this forums case).

Good post Jim. Will have a think before giving it the hopefully considered reply it deserves.

One quick thought though. I watched a bit of Australian Rules on TG4 on Saturday morning and thought to myself - thats a really poor game. Oval ball, four posts and no huge skill really - more brawn (though there is some skill). But I couldn't see myself ever getting interested in it. Hope ours isn't heading or gone that way .....

Jayo Cluxton wrote:One quick thought though. I watched a bit of Australian Rules on TG4 on Saturday morning and thought to myself - thats a really poor game. Oval ball, four posts and no huge skill really - more brawn (though there is some skill). But I couldn't see myself ever getting interested in it. Hope ours isn't heading or gone that way .....

i was very disappointed by the skill level when I was over there we went to three games and the highlights do it a huge injustice, they only show the good kicks and catches not the 75% that fly no where near the mark or where they were meant to go.
But in saying that I was caught up in the whole atmosphere of it and thoroughly enjoyed the games

JimWexford wrote:
But in saying that I was caught up in the whole atmosphere of it and thoroughly enjoyed the games

Thinly veiled 'I was off me trolley and can't remember a thing about the games' post there from Jimbo.

mossbags wrote:

JimWexford wrote:
But in saying that I was caught up in the whole atmosphere of it and thoroughly enjoyed the games

Thinly veiled 'I was off me trolley and can't remember a thing about the games' post there from Jimbo.

No ya can really enjoy a few pints sitting and looking at the games can't say I was off the trolley due to a few minor minors with me

Jim - great post and would agree whole heartedly with a lot you have written - Like JC when i have time to put together a decent reply i will but one thing i would disagree with is

Don't blame the refs they are only doing what they are told to do.

most of them are doing what they are told and are getting slated for it - one man Pat Mc Eneaney is doing his own thing and showing a blatant disregard for the rule book - he is getting praised by all in sundry for doing this even though what he is doing his 'wrong' and the other guys are suffering. Whats the point in Congress when we have Pat.

Well rules had to be brought in to curb the hitmen but too many rules have slowed down the game. I think a lot of the present tactics started in 2001. When Meath hammered Kerry in 2001 they played the first half with about 12 players crowding the defence and then breaking. When they were safely 10 points they changed their tactics. Armagh and Tyrone took a leaf from their book but in fairness to Tyrone they are not all 'swamping'in recent years. I thought that the three games over the weekend the new rules were disregarded by refs in general(Only highlights of Meath-Laois)no handpass was pulled and I saw a few sidelines taken from inside the line, but it helped the movement of the game. Maybe this will be the ref's attitude for the rest of the championship.Maybe a rule that no more than two players can tackle an individual may stop a lot of it.There is no denying but Kerry,Cork,Dublin and a few others have joined the other 'crowded defence' brigades so it is spreading.I still think a lot of the games pre 2000 were poor when you look back as there was a lot of pulling and dragging that was accepted. Never mind I still expect some great games(and we have a had a few already) to continue this year.

TC puts me in the shade.
you raised some excellent points will respond later

Thomas Clarke wrote:Great stuff Jim - lot of great points there.

There does seem to be a lot of debate at the moment about the way football is being played, but this really is nothing new. From the time the rules were drawn up in 1884, there have always been debates and controversies regarding playing styles.

The title of your thread pretty much sums it up - 'What is football?' I am of the opinion that there has never been a 'traditional' style of football, instead merely styles that have dominated certain eras, before moving on. For instance, when was Catch and Kick the principle style of play? It certainly wasn't in the first 30 years of the organisation, when much of the game was played on the ground. It wasn't in the 1940s when, inspired by Antrim, handpassing became all the rage, to the extent that the handpass was outlawed c.1951. It wasn't in the late 70s when the handpass was reinstated with such horrifying consequences that it was banned again in 1981. Nor was it in the 90s, when fitness levels and rule changes moved us into an era that Raymond Smith described as 'running football'. To some degree, Catch and Kick probably spanned the 20s through to the early 70s, but it certainly wasn't practiced by all sides at all times in that period, nor was the tactic even used in the same way by those who did practice it.

In 1884 the game was 21-a-side. Within 20 years it was 17-a-side, and by the outbreak of the First World War it was 15. At that time, a lot of people, including legendary Kerry footballer and tactician Dick Fitzgerald, thought that 13-a-side was on the horizon, but it never materialised. There is a worthwhile case for this being re-examined now, but that is another topic.

So, what has influenced changes after 1913? Well, firstly, there was collective training which,. before it was banned, dramatically improved teamwork and understanding of positional play in relation to team-mates. The master of this was Dr.Eamonn O'Sullivan of Kerry who trained the Kingdom to All-Irelands from the 1920s right through to the 1960s. As Dick Fitzgerald had done before him, Dr. Eamonn wrote a book in 1958 called The Art and Science of Gaelic Football, outlining how the game should be played, drawing upon his decades of success. Ironically, as he was writing it, the game was already changing, and his vision of the game has now long-since vanished.

The handpassing revolution of the 1940s greatly changed the game, most noteably in 1946 when Antrim won the Ulster title using the technique. Kerry saw them off in the All-Ireland Semi in that year, countering the Antrim game by tackling the intended recipient of the handpass before he received the ball. Still, the trend grew, until in the early 1950s Antrim themselves successfully proposed a motion to abolish the handpass, feeling that it had ruined their club scene!

The early 1970s saw 3 major factors that led to the dramatic increase in the pace at which the game was played: 1) The development of plastic footballs, which could be kicked harder and flew faster through the air; 2) Lighter football boots which allowed players to run faster; 3) The reinstatement of the handpass. These factors led to the fast-moving, expansive football seen by Dublin & Kerry in the 70s, and took us into what can probably be referred to, at the moment, as the modern era.

The abolishment of the handpass after 9 goals were scored in the 1980 semi final between Kerry and Offaly led to further changes of style. Mick O'Dwyer's side could no longer handpass, but they weren't about to start catching and kicking. Instead, Eoghan Corry describes their style in the 80s as 'kick and catch', with the bounced pass in front of a man being favoured to the high punt that he had to fight for. This was further developed after the rule change in 1990, which permitted free-kicks from the hand. Additionally, this rule change further speeded up the game, as fitness and mobility became more and more important. The increase of substitutions to 5 per team in the last decade has meant that teams can maintain pressing games for longer than before, as they now have replacements for tiring half forwards.Faster, fitter players can make games more exciting, but as defenders cover more ground, there is less space for the opposition to play in. Video analysis of opposition players and systems has also meant that it is harder for forwards to find space.

So the game has changed, in many ways, over the last 125 years. Managers, all the rage since Match of the Day was first shown on TVs in the 1960s, have also contributed enormously to tactics, systems and styles of play, but that would require a longer post that I can write while at work. However, managers generally take advantage of the framework that they are given, and the framework comes from rule changes and other advancements (health/fitness/plastic footballs etc).

Football has always evolved, and will continue to. There is no defined style of days gone by, merely changes in fashion. Ultra-defensive styles of play can be ugly to watch, but the challenge of working out how to counteract them can be interesting. For me, football tactics are, and always will be, about the manipulation of space. There is still plenty of space on a football field today - it just requires thought as to how best to use it.

fup a duck i couldnt write a post this length if i was off work and had all day to ponder.

fantastic bit of prose there TC

TC - superb history and analysis there. Having thought about this since Jim posted, my overriding thoughts are personal - ie what I think is Gaelic football in terms of skill and the aims of the game - all the time accepting the evolution. I suppose what I am saying is that this is what I think football should be.

I think the primary skills and the underlying principles of our game should be catch and kick - and also an emphasis on the availability of a type of handpass (not to be overly encouraged by the rules) and an encouragement for players to develop their soloing skills.

To see a player soar into the sky in Croke Park and come down with the ball is a great sight - even if it isn't your own player! The foot pass to me is also a great skill - and out of the hands as it invariably is - is unique to Gaelic football - aside from the largely skill-less Aussie rules! Witness Keaney's suberb footpass to Bernard Brogan last Sunday for the first goal - sublime.

I am not a great fan of handpassing - despite Dublin's mastery of it in the 70s (basketball to me!) and prefer the fist pass which the GAA are trying to bring back en vogue. The ability to pass with the hand rewards players with vision in a tight situation - McNamee's goal making pass in the Offaly-Meath game was also sublime.

And then there is the solo - a unique skill to our game - and to see a player executing it at top speed is wonderful.

As the game has progressed players have got fitter, faster and stronger. I feel rule changes have not been made in the interests of retaining the inherent skills of the game. Hand interaction through whatever form has been allowed to prosper in recent years .. though maybe that is changing - hopefully.

There is a question of whether 15 a side (with fitness levels now) is too many - maybe it is - but maybe not in the wide open expanses of Croker - another ponderable. Then we have managers, trainers, dieticians, stats men et al .... Its 15 v 15 after all that. The rules should ensure - to the fullest extent possible - that the best 15 win out.

Football is Derry.

up.the.oak.trees wrote:Football is Derry.

And this year Derry is s***, a bit like the Championship so far!!

Some excellent posts on this important issue, credit to all contributors. I'll add my few thoughts but they are but a precis of others.
Teams of 13 a-side. I'm plugging this for 20 years and had it turned down last year on this forum.
Only 2 handpasses before the ball must be played with the foot. Such handpasses to be made with closed fist.
Timeclock akin to that used in Ladies games at all county championship matches.
Scrap the qualifiers, damaging club football all over the country. Beaten first day---OUT..
All inter county championship, bar provincial finals, at neutral venues...unpalatable for some but why have these fine stadia around the country and no big matches in them..
Greater cohesion among the refeering panel. Too much confusion as it is.
I agree with Jim here, any rule change to be adopted the following year..