Tyrone v Donegal - USFC Semi Final

Thomas Clarke wrote:I notice that Donegal folk (RMD, Omar....Patsy ) are very quiet on this one - perhaps that is because the rest of the country sees this as a foregone conclusion in their favour, whereas the locals are a bit more concerned about how good they actually are.

I would not see this as a foregone conclusion in any shape or form - I think this is massively close to call. Yes Donegal have had the measure of Tyrone recently but I think the Red Hands are a better side than last year. And Mr Harte is a man who learns lessons fairly quickly and is usually astute in taking corrective action. I do not rate Donegal as highly as some seem to. They are a good, competitive side. I think there will be a kick of a ball in it and I certainly wouldn't be placing any large bets on the outcome either way.

Thomas Clarke wrote:I notice that Donegal folk (RMD, Omar....Patsy ) are very quiet on this one - perhaps that is because the rest of the country sees this as a foregone conclusion in their favour, whereas the locals are a bit more concerned about how good they actually are.

Shocking display of mind games from TC here, will anyone fall for this?

Parouisa wrote:

Thomas Clarke wrote:I notice that Donegal folk (RMD, Omar....Patsy ) are very quiet on this one - perhaps that is because the rest of the country sees this as a foregone conclusion in their favour, whereas the locals are a bit more concerned about how good they actually are.

I would not see this as a foregone conclusion in any shape or form - I think this is massively close to call. Yes Donegal have had the measure of Tyrone recently but I think the Red Hands are a better side than last year. And Mr Harte is a man who learns lessons fairly quickly and is usually astute in taking corrective action. I do not rate Donegal as highly as some seem to. They are a good, competitive side. I think there will be a kick of a ball in it and I certainly wouldn't be placing any large bets on the outcome either way.

its not that i rate them highly P, more a case of a derth of talent amongst other teams which has catapulted Donegal into the top 4 sides in the Country.

It will be an interesting game, Mickey will have been planning for this one since the defeat last year make no mistake about that, the video will have been watched over and over to see where he can pick holes in their team and gain some sort of initiative.

I think the man we need to watch is McHugh, if we can limit his influence i think we may have a chance. Granted there are other danger men but i think he can be quite influential and besides the other guys like Murphy will be on Mickeys radar.

I also think that if we go man to man like we did in the second half against Armagh it will improve our chances, if we leave them with a spare man who can distribute and supply good ball their forwards could give us bother. I would still be worried about Gormley at the back. He will likely get the job of shadowing McFadden and that could suit him but a quicker man will expose his lack of speed.

Has the makings of an intriguing game and there is a bit more pressure on them than Tyrone, that said Donegal arent as flaky under pressure as they once were so they wont surrender too easily.

I am going for a 3 point win for Tyrone

I'd agree with large parts of both Parouisa & Bocerty's posts.

I fancy Tyrone for this game, and have been susprised by just how few people are tipping them. Donegal looked very good against Derry and Cavan, and I do think that they have improved, but by how much is not yet apparent, simply because they haven't met even a middle of the road side so far.

Boc's highlighting of Mark McHugh is relevant but, if he plays as deep as he did against Derry, I can't see Tyrone assigning anyone to man-mark him. For me, the positioning of Murphy is more crucial. If Donegal have the upper hand in midfield, then he will be a handful inside, but if he has to come out and help Gallagher/Bradley, then Donegal will be far less potent at full-forward.

I could see Gormley on Murphy, wherever he plays. He has the strength to battle him, and Murphy shouldn't be able to exploit Gormley's lack of pace as much as some other players might. Similarly at the back, Justin, if close to full fitness, could take McFadden, and I'd expect Carlin on McBrearty. If Justin McMahon plays 70 minutes, and Tyrone can keep Joey in midfield, then Tyrone will be very tough to beat.

I'm pretty sure I know how Donegal will line out, but Tyrone's positioning/formation is much harder to predict. Perhaps that is because we have more adaptable players, but maybe it is because we haven't really developed a clear identity yet.

I hope that Tyrone drop McNabb, Harte, Penrose and Donnelly deep, and let them plus the half backs break forward as and when they want. If that happens, though, we could end up with something resembling Dublin/Donegal from last summer, with both sides looking to counter attack, so this may not be pretty.

I think if it is a Dublin-Donegal type affair this would favour Tyrone TC. The more low scoring for them the better and they can pick off the inevitable frees and stay close. Like last year, a goal could be crucial. Having said that I think Donegal will offer a little more offensively this year.

Think this will be a very tough game all depends though what system jim goes with,but tyrone team are well past it an should find this a step to far harte has shoewing to much faith in the old guard donegal seem more hungry with the best up and coming players,gormley picking up murph will be the biggest mistake tyrone will make murph will rip him apart,it would be good for the ulster chamoinship if this was a footballing game they have been few and far between so far i agree with the tyrone supporter donegal will start as selected tyrone have no midfield that should help and some over the hill forwards and weak baqcks,donegal will have more time to think about the next game

patsymc wrote:Think this will be a very tough game all depends though what system jim goes with,but tyrone team are well past it an should find this a step to far harte has shoewing to much faith in the old guard donegal seem more hungry with the best up and coming players,gormley picking up murph will be the biggest mistake tyrone will make murph will rip him apart,it would be good for the ulster chamoinship if this was a footballing game they have been few and far between so far i agree with the tyrone supporter donegal will start as selected tyrone have no midfield that should help and some over the hill forwards and weak baqcks,donegal will have more time to think about the next game

All depends what system Jim goes with!!!!! He only has the one Patsy or haven't you noticed???

Tyrone team past it!!! I think you need to move forward 12 months Patsy, you could level that at last years team but certainly not this years.

Tyrone have no midfield!!! We never had much of a midfield but still won 3 All-Ireland's without one. Mind you Donegals midfield is nothing to be shouting about either.

Your post is typical of what is coming from a lot of Donegal supporters at the minute, they think this one is done and dusted, thankfully there are still a few with their wits bout thm who realise the ambush is seriously on here.....

Not sure what the weather is like in Clones but it's far from good here in Omagh and the conditions good have a big bearing on the game. Was chatting to a Donegal lad last night and he heard tat the pitch in Clones is in awful shape, how much truth there is in that I don't know.

Donegal marginal favourites with bookies, but some of this talk about Donegal being all ireland contenders at this stage is nonsense. They hung onto division one status by their talons and shipped heavy defeats to Dublin and kerry. Since then they have beaten a cavan team in rebuild - who were hardly a superpower before that and a derry team who put up the most half hearted effort that any ulster team have put up in a decade.

If donegal play murphy as playmaker we are relying on colm anthony inside who has never had a good game once the days start shortening. The other inside option is mcbrearty whomis back in training now the leaving cert is over.

Lacey is filling the gap left by cassidy and also having to man mark ie bradley v derry the key scoring forward after mcgee got found out against cavan. Against a team with three scoring forwards the sums become harder.

Donegal spent all last year avoiding midfield but woeful cavan and derry teams have made big neil look mobile. He even had the cheek to kick the ball against derry. This won,t happen today.

Harte didn,t see donegal coming last year, he wont be as ill prepared this time.

As pointed out above its been raining all morning in clones so not a day for over handling the ball.

I see too many risks to get carried away on this and feel that if tyrone keep in touch until 10 mins from end they could pull away as donegal will have played their aces.

Verdict Tyrone by three.

I've struggled to give Donegal any credit whatsoever because of their unashamed lack of creativity and footballing flair. They have took their place among the best teams in the country by virtue of the fact they can defend well. Yet in the league they were surprisingly porous, and conceded a lot of goals. Their forward play would appear to have been better in the Championship so far, considering they were without Murphy. They have racked up an impressive tally in Ulster so far. Yet they are conceding an average of almost 14 points per game which I would say is considerably more than last year. If this slightly worse defensive record is to continue, I'm not sure they have the depth in the forward lines to overcome it. The fear is, if their new slightly greater emphasis on attacking play isn't providing enough scores, and is detrimental to their defensive play, they will simply revert back to the horrors of last year.

Tyrone themselves are anybody's guess right now, they have been on form this season of course and have already had a decent test against a solid Armagh side. Donegal on the other hand were playing league football against superior opposition and even though they have not been tested properly as of yet in the Championship, the old 'you can only beat what's put in front of you' comes to mind, and they did so with ease.

I'm gona shout for Tyrone in this one, because quite simply they are a more complete side with better footballers. However, given the fact that people are saying Donegal would bury Down....I wouldn't mind putting that one to the test.

bluearmy1 wrote:I've struggled to give Donegal any credit whatsoever because of their unashamed lack of creativity and footballing flair. They have took their place among the best teams in the country by virtue of the fact they can defend well. Yet in the league they were surprisingly porous, and conceded a lot of goals. Their forward play would appear to have been better in the Championship so far, considering they were without Murphy. They have racked up an impressive tally in Ulster so far. Yet they are conceding an average of almost 14 points per game which I would say is considerably more than last year. If this slightly worse defensive record is to continue, I'm not sure they have the depth in the forward lines to overcome it. The fear is, if their new slightly greater emphasis on attacking play isn't providing enough scores, and is detrimental to their defensive play, they will simply revert back to the horrors of last year.

Tyrone themselves are anybody's guess right now, they have been on form this season of course and have already had a decent test against a solid Armagh side. Donegal on the other hand were playing league football against superior opposition and even though they have not been tested properly as of yet in the Championship, the old 'you can only beat what's put in front of you' comes to mind, and they did so with ease.

I'm gona shout for Tyrone in this one, because quite simply they are a more complete side with better footballers. However, given the fact that people are saying Donegal would bury Down....I wouldn't mind putting that one to the test.

BA throwing down the gauntlet here for the men from the Mournes, they fear no one and rightly so!!! BA why do you not have a go at the Tipster comp for a bit of craic

a picture of the pitch in Clones taken 5 minutes or so ago, no sign of much harm on it

Great stuff, Boc! This is the sort of cutting edge, 'real-time' reporting that this site needs!

GF/RMD, in addition to BE's interviews and Boc's pitch reports, it's time for podcasts...

Thomas Clarke wrote:Great stuff, Boc! This is the sort of cutting edge, 'real-time' reporting that this site needs!

GF/RMD, in addition to BE's interviews and Boc's pitch reports, it's time for podcasts...

could we arrange a media pass into the grounds?????

bocerty wrote:

Thomas Clarke wrote:Great stuff, Boc! This is the sort of cutting edge, 'real-time' reporting that this site needs!

GF/RMD, in addition to BE's interviews and Boc's pitch reports, it's time for podcasts...

could we arrange a media pass into the grounds?????

You can see where I'm going with this!

Thomas Clarke wrote:

bocerty wrote:

Thomas Clarke wrote:Great stuff, Boc! This is the sort of cutting edge, 'real-time' reporting that this site needs!

GF/RMD, in addition to BE's interviews and Boc's pitch reports, it's time for podcasts...

could we arrange a media pass into the grounds?????

You can see where I'm going with this!

i see you TC, I see you

Cosy Bar calling

Happy enough with that. On balance thought we deserved it, dominated the middle of the second half which was the period that made the difference, that said if tyrone converted anyone of three goal chances it was a different story.

First half very tight. Fairly strong breeze in tyrones favour. Both teams playing 13 behind the ball in defence - and tyrone had ricey as a sweeper. which left the middle third very crowded. Best sucess coming from direct running. Thought once donegal stayed in touch they had a good chance with the wind.
On two occassions donegal got caught with 3,4 men tackling on the wing and leaving a gap inside. This being the major concern. Even though donegal went in a point down I thought they were owning things towards the end of the first half.

McMahons opening point into a stiff breeze in the second did throw the wind theory out the window for a while. Thereafter donegal raised the game and two key moments where kavangh broke the "game line" on the 45 turned the game in donegals favour. In this key period i felt donegal looked stronger and fitter and did,nt panic after they went two down.
Felt they pushed on well from there the last 5 mins not withstanding.

Was very impressed with discipline today with almost nothing conceded inside the 45 - also loved mcbreartys point in the first half which was a response to 5 minutes of toe standing and baiting from "the sweeper".



Thought the ref was brutal. A body check on lacey in the first half that the ref was the only person in the ground not to see. Also donegal got a free in just outside the 45 at 10-9 in the second half for pulling down gormley i think. which even the donegal supporters were baffled at. Also very noticeable today the donegal tactic of "accidently" blocking the passer after he has passed. It was only blown for once.

Tyrone could have stole this without any of their forward line clicking, so on a day when their forwards get more space think they will give the qualifiers a fair run and would fancy them for a quarter final berth.

Only came upon it at 9-8 and probably caught the worst of it. As I thought scores were at a premium and Tyrone went too long without one. That said Penrose could have sneaked a goal and got me 5 tipster points. Wasn't sold on the amazing save commentary - it was simply a matter of extending his leg. Hard to see either team at the real business end IMO.

Fair to say the better team won through in the end. We didnt have a great start to the game with 3 enforced changes, Justy McMahon Cathal McCarron and Ronan McNabb all unable to start through injury.

That said we started well enough and were moving the ball at pace and causing Donegal enough problems. Our final ball into the forwards wasnt great at times, and more often than not the forward was quickly swallowed up by a sea of Donegal defenders (the same applied at the other end). O'Neill was playing very deep and Penrose even deeper, though he was sweeping up a lot of ball. Some great scores from both sides in the first half and some tenacious tackling and defending too, though it was all pretty congested in and around the middle of the field and it wasnt pretty viewing. At half time a slender lead with the breeze wasnt ideal, i though Donnelly should have went for goal rather than fist it over for a point.

The second half started in the same tit for tat fashion as the first but then somehow we went out of the game completely, a lot of unforced errors and conceding possession most notably from Penrose. From leading 8-7 we suddenly found ourselves 12-8 behind with Donegal rattling off 5 unanswered points. We went something like 32 minutes without scoring which at this level is asking for trouble. We werent getting enough out of the likes of Peter Harte,O'Neill and Mugsy, though in fairness they lived of scraps for most of the game.

We could have nicked it at the end when Penroses daisy cutter was somehow saved by Durkin, though i doubt very much if anyonr would argue that we deserved it. A bad day for Tyrone and our achilles is defintely our forward unit, Mugsy was winning virtually every ball that was sent his way but he had no support and was put under intense pressure by the Donegal backs. O'Neill was foraging too far out the field at times to be of any threat to Donegal and we had no other scoring threat.

Ah well thems the brakes, we'll head off into the qualifiers and see if we cant put a run together.

when tyrone get rid of the dead wood they will be condenders again,harte has to stop being loyal,there forwards let them down badly,donegal are the real deal now look very strong 1-20,tyrone wont be easy beating from here in there might be reapeat game later on in the year

Donegal ride their luck and they work hard - two key ingredients in any successful team I would think.

As far as work ethic goes, only Dublin, Kildare and Cork can be considered worthy opponents.

Although the day will become, as it did the semi-final last year, when they miss a larger than normal number of chances, and they concede a few extra ones too. All about luck really, Bernard Brogan single-handely beat them on his own last year - Colm McFadden missed a handy goal. Bernard not repeat those heroics but Benny Coulter might. Martin Penrose almost pulled it of the fire.

Well RMD?

Verdict?

This was genuine championship fair, especially the first half, which was thoroughly enjoyable and of a high standard. Both sides will have come out of the game well: Tyrone will feel optimistic for the future, believing that they could have snatched a result with a 3rd of the first 15 missing, while Donegal will feel that they have secured a deserved and affirming win over a top 8 side.

As expected, both sides played 4 deep forwards, trying to ensure that they dominated possession. This gave the defenders plenty of time on the ball, and backs on both teams got the chance to illustrate their attacking talents. Forwards had it tougher, with McBreaty/McFadden and Mulligan/O'Neill enjoying very little success.

Tyrone had the better of the first half, and should have led by 4-5 points instead of 1. A couple of goal chances were missed, but more worrying was the poor kicking for points from the tyrone forwards. At one stage Tyrone had converted 3/12 scoring chances, while Donegal were 3/5. Although our midfield never really had the upper hand, the work being done by the likes of Penrose, Mattie Donnelly, Carlin & Sean O'Neill created a lot of turnovers, and we were breaking forward very quickly. Donegal found the smaller and sharper Tyrone players hard to contain at times but, as mentioned, poor shooting and a very organised Tir Chonaill defence kept the minimum between the sides at all times.

5 minutes into the 2nd half, and the writing was on the wall. The excellent Penrose had started to slow, while the Donnelly's and Harte were out of the game altogether. Donegal's strength had worn Tyrone down, and we hadn't enough on the scoreboard to show for our efforts. The next 25 minutes were, by and large, all Donegal. Bradley and Kavanagh were dominating the middle, and the half backs were now on the front foot. Without ever looking like getting in for a goal, Donegal kept the scoreboard ticking over, aided by poorly placed Tyrone passes from the keeper, Carlin, Penrose and others, and looked like stretching out to a comfortable win.

Credit to Tyrone, then, for fighting back at the finish. The arrival of McNabb and, to a greater degree, Brian McGuigan turned the game back in Tyrone's favour, and the latter's 10 minute cameo was quite brilliant. What a fabulous footballer he was and still is and, although he wouldn't have the legs for much more than a quarter of an hour, he is still as good as anyone in Ireland in short bursts. With McGuigan winning ball and directing things, Tyrone came back to life, and had 2 chances to snatch goals that would have forced at least a draw. To be fair, though, that would have been unfair on Donegal who, for the 2nd summer in a row, were the better side overall.

Donegal are a good side and will be hard to beat, but I'd still worry about them at either end of the field. The fullback line will probably be ok due to the cover that they are getting, but they still need 2 Michael Murphy's, one for midfield and one for FF. McFadden is an average enough player, while McBrearty is not yet making a sustained impact, instead pointing to his talent with very sporadic (but stylish) points. As regards their AI aspirations, they have the size, conditioning and organisation to trouble anyone, but they could again come undone due to lack of scoring power.

I've put together a tactical analysis piece on this for anyone interested [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

emmetryan wrote:I've put together a tactical analysis piece on this for anyone interested [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Welcome Emmet, make sure you have a look folks as i follow him on twitter and enjoy reading his analysis on games. @action81 for those that are on twitter.