Re: Derry vs Donegal USFC Final

**thehillsofdonegal** Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:30 pm

Donegals penalty was a foul and therefore a penalty.
If Derry had scored theirs and remember it has to be scored not just awarded, they'd still have trailed by 2 points.
They should also have had 14 men at that point.
Thomas, I couldn't believe it to hear the statistic that only once before has a team won Ulster from the preliminary round. Worth checking out in the record books but heard that on RTE Radio 1 in the car on Sunday.

**OMAR** Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:45 pm

Loyal2TheRoyal wrote:Omar - normally you are sensible in your posts. However in this instance, I feel you are being blinded by patriotism. Or possibly by your reflection in the Anglo Celt Cup? Or maybe Maurice Deegan's whistle? I don't know.

Derry are a good outfit and I feel sorry for them - losing two of their best players to injury, subject of some controversial officiating, asked to play a game six days after the Ulster final in a venue seven times further away than the opposition.

As for a possible re-match, I think had Donegal not got the cushion of the penalty on Sunday, the direction the game took may have been a lot different. Certainly Donegal would have to chase and actually try to win the game. Derry on the other hand wouldn't have been forced to look for goals.

I hope Derry beat Kildare but I'm doubtful they will.

You said "if they meet again" - I said they can't unless both sides progress to the AI semi final. In my view it is unlikely that either side will do so as it wil involve defeating Dublin and Kerrry and possibly Cork. Can't see where there is any Bias in that view and a review of any bookmakers odds would support a similar view of the pecking order. If thats non-sensical im open to suggestions

As regard being patriotic or blinded by something or other I feel that if Donegal draw Cork in the Q/F they will lose. If they draw Kildare they will probably lose - If they draw Tyrone or Armagh I would have them as marginal outsiders and after that - Limerick -Wexford -Down-Roscommon they stand a reasonable chance.

With reference to the rest of your post

The better team won on the day - If you felt that Derry deserved to win that game with the right rub of the green well then you were watching a different game to the rest of the country. Donegal were level at half time and should have led if it was not for conceeding some silly frees where there was no scoreing threat - The wind was worth at least a five point difference - The donegal penalty was soft but the keeper went to ground in front of an advancing player as many commentators said it should be a penalty as those who say it shouldn't.
Derry should have had a penalty - Whose to know if they would have scored it - Murphy had a legitimate point ruled out in the first half.
Donegal tapped over 2 or 3 short range points once they had a goal buffer. Again who is to know if McFadden would have gone for goal if the game was in the balance.
The Bradleys did not tog out but to date I haven't seen a game where a handicap or a replay was offered because
a team did not have their preffered 15 available and fully fit - Donegal had neither of their first choice midfielders fit.

**Loyal2TheRoyal** Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:01 pm

The way the game unfolded, Donegal were the better side. Backed up by the 1-11 to 0-08 scoreline.

However certain moments had a big influence in determinting the direction the game took. Had both penalty decisions went the other way, or even had one gone the other way, I think the game would have taken a different direction. And in those cases, the Donegal style may not have been as effective.

Also, I feel some Derry footballers - who I've praised in the past - didn't perform. But their below par showing will not have been helped by these certain moments. Though that would be ignoring the fact that they did appear very uncomfortable when faced with the intense Donegal defending. What was with the reluctance to float the ball into the tall Caolan O'Boyle, I'm not sure?

A new day, a new set of circumstances, and a new game against Donegal, Derry would - at worst - have to be confident of learning from the experience of last Sunday.

**Thomas Clarke** Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:37 pm

Loyal2TheRoyal wrote:
Also, I feel some Derry footballers - who I've praised in the past - didn't perform.

This is why I refer to them as average. They never perform when it matters, because they just aren't good enough. The more gifted ones are Gilligan, Lynch, Muldoon and Kielt, but they were overhyped as young players and, with the possible exception of Muldoon, have never delivered at senior level. The rest (McGoldricks, Diver and the likes) are game but poor footballers.

This was Derry's first Ulster final in 11 years, and they lost it comfortably, managing a paltry 8 points. For years, there has been nothing to suggest that they are anything better than an average side. You are a horse-racing fan Loyal and, where Derry are concerned, it's time you studied the form.

**Loyal2TheRoyal** Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:43 pm

Thomas Clarke wrote:
Loyal2TheRoyal wrote:
Also, I feel some Derry footballers - who I've praised in the past - didn't perform.

This is why I refer to them as average. They never perform when it matters, because they just aren't good enough. The more gifted ones are Gilligan, Lynch, Muldoon and Kielt, but they were overhyped as young players and, with the possible exception of Muldoon, have never delivered at senior level. The rest (McGoldricks, Diver and the likes) are game but poor footballers.

This was Derry's first Ulster final in 11 years, and they lost it comfortably, managing a paltry 8 points. For years, there has been nothing to suggest that they are anything better than an average side. You are a horse-racing fan Loyal and, where Derry are concerned, it's time you studied the form.

In racing, I am usually drawn towards the more unexposed types - who are yet to deliver. Same as Derry.

They've been ordinary enough the past decade but I thought Brennan had the key. Maybe he still does.

Could beat Kildare you never know.

**OMAR** Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:15 am

Loyal2TheRoyal wrote:
Thomas Clarke wrote:
Loyal2TheRoyal wrote:
Also, I feel some Derry footballers - who I've praised in the past - didn't perform.

This is why I refer to them as average. They never perform when it matters, because they just aren't good enough. The more gifted ones are Gilligan, Lynch, Muldoon and Kielt, but they were overhyped as young players and, with the possible exception of Muldoon, have never delivered at senior level. The rest (McGoldricks, Diver and the likes) are game but poor footballers.

This was Derry's first Ulster final in 11 years, and they lost it comfortably, managing a paltry 8 points. For years, there has been nothing to suggest that they are anything better than an average side. You are a horse-racing fan Loyal and, where Derry are concerned, it's time you studied the form.

In racing, I am usually drawn towards the more unexposed types - who are yet to deliver. Same as Derry.

Brennan has a great track record at club level and certainly seemed to know how to gel together what has often been somewhat of disjointed team spirit in the derry camp. Clearly someone who advocates the more traditional type of game and indeed the Derry performance against Armagh was one of the most refreshing games we have seen in Ulster for a decade. The post match interviews with Skinner were also different in that he mentioned the team and the manager.

However I would feel that on Sunday (decisions aside) he failed to adapt to the donegal plan, tactics or set-up before or during the game even though they were fairly well flagged before the game. If his plan was to kick points from 40 yards well then he shoudl have read Thursdays weather forecast.

In particular

No High ball went over the top of the Donegal half back line to the inside men
The centre half back line all followed their men back into the Donegal half Mchugh's man most notably - crowding things even more -
Left oceans of space in front of McFadden and Murphy allowing the ball to be played low in the second half instead
of Donegal being forced to play high ball with the wind over the half back line which is much more difficult.
Tried half a dozen options on Murphy except the obvious one which would have been a sweeper ten yards in front of him.
For the donegal kick-outs in the first half - Durcan found a Donegal player with low 60 yard kicks that never went 10 yards off the ground - Again becase the Derry half back line were out of position.

They've been ordinary enough the past decade but I thought Brennan had the key. Maybe he still does.

Could beat Kildare you never know.

**up.the.oak.trees** Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:42 pm

Thomas Clarke wrote:
Loyal2TheRoyal wrote:
Also, I feel some Derry footballers - who I've praised in the past - didn't perform.

This is why I refer to them as average. They never perform when it matters, because they just aren't good enough. The more gifted ones are Gilligan, Lynch, Muldoon and Kielt, but they were overhyped as young players and, with the possible exception of Muldoon, have never delivered at senior level. The rest (McGoldricks, Diver and the likes) are game but poor footballers.

This was Derry's first Ulster final in 11 years, and they lost it comfortably, managing a paltry 8 points. For years, there has been nothing to suggest that they are anything better than an average side. You are a horse-racing fan Loyal and, where Derry are concerned, it's time you studied the form.

Donegal beat Tyrone dont forget hi! Wink

We'll see this tyrone team on Saturday sure, Probably sour milk now with a bit of mould, Past there sell by date me thinks Wink

**Thomas Clarke** Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:46 pm

up.the.oak.trees wrote: Donegal beat Tyrone dont forget hi! We'll see this tyrone team on Saturday sure, Probably sour milk now with a bit of mould, Past there sell by date me thinks

I agree totally. Brian McGuigan, for instance, no longer has the speed he used to. Perhaps it is his 7 all-ireland winning medals weighing him down.

**up.the.oak.trees** Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:50 pm

Thomas Clarke wrote:
up.the.oak.trees wrote: Donegal beat Tyrone dont forget hi! We'll see this tyrone team on Saturday sure, Probably sour milk now with a bit of mould, Past there sell by date me thinks

I agree totally. Brian McGuigan, for instance, no longer has the speed he used to. Perhaps it is his 7 all-ireland winning medals weighing him down.

Not just McGuigan, Not to mention Dooher and S'oN the list goes on like just not the same standard as before

**Thomas Clarke** Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:52 pm

I see that irony hasn't made its way to Derry yet, which, in itself, is ironic...

**up.the.oak.trees** Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:54 pm

Thomas Clarke wrote:I see that irony hasn't made its way to Derry yet, which, in itself, is ironic...

Give us time, You had to wait to be born didn't ya? Wink

**RMDrive** Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:06 pm

Loyal2TheRoyal wrote:The way the game unfolded, Donegal were the better side. Backed up by the 1-11 to 0-08 scoreline.

However certain moments had a big influence in determinting the direction the game took. Had both penalty decisions went the other way, or even had one gone the other way, I think the game would have taken a different direction. And in those cases, the Donegal style may not have been as effective.

Also, I feel some Derry footballers - who I've praised in the past - didn't perform. But their below par showing will not have been helped by these certain moments. Though that would be ignoring the fact that they did appear very uncomfortable when faced with the intense Donegal defending. What was with the reluctance to float the ball into the tall Caolan O'Boyle, I'm not sure?

A new day, a new set of circumstances, and a new game against Donegal, Derry would - at worst - have to be confident of learning from the experience of last Sunday.

Derry get a penalty, gap down to 3, get a man sent off, gap up to 6. End result - all the same. I was very disappointed in Derry. Looked like a team who didn;t have a clue what they wanted to do and did't really have the passion to make something happen.

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