Big Decisions

The GAA has always prided itself as THE organisation of the common people, of Ireland, the grassroots of the GAA. Every day thousands of men and women the length and breadth of this little country (and abroad) often making sacrifices in jobs, family etc. Indeed a lot of the time they are out of pocket and yet continue to work away quietly without complaint. They never get a cent and wouldn't even consider looking for one. I look at the GAA like a tower of playing cards. The bottom layer is the men, women and children who work tirelessly without complaint to ensure that everything runs smoothly. If these were taken away the GAA would crumble as quick as the card tower would fall. These people are the real heroes of our association. I believe that these people should get more of a say in big issues in the GAA ie Rule 42 etc. Many motions are not even discussed at Co Board level and so it is the opinion of the Representative at congress that decides what way a county votes. Every adult member of the GAA should be allowed a vote on certain issues. It could be organised in the same way as an election/referendum with the GAA club (or other agreed places if certain GAA clubs are not suitable) as the place to vote. GAA membership cards have been issued last year so the GAA know exactly who is entitled to vote. This culd be used in big decisions in the GAA and could also be used to elect Presidents. I feel that it would be a way of showing appreciation to the ordinary grassroots of the GAA who are the very ones that keep it thriving

Good in theory and finely democratic Dammon but......

Current structure is that delegates represent the views of the club but that ain't always so. I think it would be an Admin headache at least and you could end up with UN observers to oversee the voting!

does democracy exist in the GAA in real terms - the more i look at the way clubs are run and how decisions are made it really baffles me that they havent gone under crippled with debt. Its a select few making all the decisions and they appear not to give a flying f**k what paid up members of the club think or want!!!

That can happen too Boc. Mind you it can be hard to get people to give the time that is needed for these positions ... they would probably remind you of that sharpish!!

In some Dublin clubs (and even in Co Board) there are a lot of non-Dubs involved at committee levels etc .... not always a good thing either .....

extremely democratic but heck the AGM is our version of your referendum as such and if there may be an extremely controversial motion, an EGM. Our County/National Conventions are the same as the Dail passing a bill so in all honesty our association is fine concerning its voting systems if ye ask me.The problem is down in rural areas like the woodlands of North Wexford hunter gatherers believe that power has been entirely centralised to HQ in Dublin but thats why we have our beloved delegates. Of course the big go boys up in croker are going to be alienated from the average GAA joe naturally to a degree but thats why we have them there. They represent us as delegates and we vote for them at a club and county level to represent us

I know thats an extremely longwinded way to put it but thats what happens when i go in a speel

Bocerty i dont know where youre Getting that from but its up to the club members to turn up at that AGM and give their vote. Simply, it is and isnt a case of A select elite group making decision because its a committee and only the few lads and lasses on the committee do the paperwork!!

Oh Gm am i going senile with these long winded posts?

bocerty wrote:does democracy exist in the GAA in real terms - the more i look at the way clubs are run and how decisions are made it really baffles me that they havent gone under crippled with debt. Its a select few making all the decisions and they appear not to give a flying f**k what paid up members of the club think or want!!!

I hear what your saying there Boc, i know within many clubs there is an inner circle of trust the exists to ensure it is heading in the general direction a chosen few or where one man wants it to go. I'm sure people have various experiences of this type of thing happening within their own club (or political party). Of course this leads to all sorts of back stabbing and begrudgery and sure it gives people something to cry about during the dark evenings when there isn't a pile of football being played except for the soccerball. Then when the proper club football starts the interest will then slowly diflect towards poor management, poor coaching, ageing players or the young one season wonder who discovered vodka and coke during his first term at college and who's football has went ta ****. Its all part of club life.

mugsys_barber wrote:

bocerty wrote:does democracy exist in the GAA in real terms - the more i look at the way clubs are run and how decisions are made it really baffles me that they havent gone under crippled with debt. Its a select few making all the decisions and they appear not to give a flying f**k what paid up members of the club think or want!!!

I hear what your saying there Boc, i know within many clubs there is an inner circle of trust the exists to ensure it is heading in the general direction a chosen few or where one man wants it to go. I'm sure people have various experiences of this type of thing happening within their own club (or political party). Of course this leads to all sorts of back stabbing and begrudgery and sure it gives people something to cry about during the dark evenings when there isn't a pile of football being played except for the soccerball. Then when the proper club football starts the interest will then slowly diflect towards poor management, poor coaching, ageing players or the young one season wonder who discovered vodka and coke during his first term at college and who's football has went ta ****. Its all part of club life.

nail on the head Mugsy - an inner circle who keep all info to themselves, ask them a question and they'll do everything but answer it, ask them to do something that will benefit the club and they take so long its not worth doing. They succeed only in driving people away from the club and good people at that - then come the AGM when people have the 'audacity' to vote against them and they take the hump

Ah sure these inner circles have been going around for years .......

Not everyone has the vision and long-term thinking to guide a club. In a way I can understand why there would be an inner circle in some scenarios. I've been part of one before (a sub-set of a committee) where there were a few lads with the desire and ability to look beyond the next game or two and try to build solid foundations that would stand to the club for years and years to come. If I had spoken to some people about club text alerts and charity events and web pages (this is a few years back) I would have been told to focus on selling cards for the race night and not to worry about next year or beyond.
I'm sure there are some situations where these inner circles are a bad thing but having been a part of one, I have a bit of an understanding of the mechanics of a committeeeeeeee.

gaamad1996 wrote:extremely democratic but heck the AGM is our version of your referendum as such and if there may be an extremely controversial motion, an EGM. Our County/National Conventions are the same as the Dail passing a bill so in all honesty our association is fine concerning its voting systems if ye ask me.The problem is down in rural areas like the woodlands of North Wexford hunter gatherers believe that power has been entirely centralised to HQ in Dublin but thats why we have our beloved delegates. Of course the big go boys up in croker are going to be alienated from the average GAA joe naturally to a degree but thats why we have them there. They represent us as delegates and we vote for them at a club and county level to represent us

I know thats an extremely longwinded way to put it but thats what happens when i go in a speel

Bocerty i dont know where youre Getting that from but its up to the club members to turn up at that AGM and give their vote. Simply, it is and isnt a case of A select elite group making decision because its a committee and only the few lads and lasses on the committee do the paperwork!!

Oh Gm am i going senile with these long winded posts?

Is there ever EGMS to discuss important motions though?

RMDrive wrote:I've been part of one before (a sub-set of a committee) where there were a few lads with the desire and ability to look beyond the next game or two and try to build solid foundations that would stand to the club for years and years to come.

Was that the year before the club folded and you built the big new house RM?

Jayo Cluxton wrote:

RMDrive wrote:I've been part of one before (a sub-set of a committee) where there were a few lads with the desire and ability to look beyond the next game or two and try to build solid foundations that would stand to the club for years and years to come.

Was that the year before the club folded and you built the big new house RM?

That was the year all right JC

dammon wrote:

gaamad1996 wrote:extremely democratic but heck the AGM is our version of your referendum as such and if there may be an extremely controversial motion, an EGM. Our County/National Conventions are the same as the Dail passing a bill so in all honesty our association is fine concerning its voting systems if ye ask me.The problem is down in rural areas like the woodlands of North Wexford hunter gatherers believe that power has been entirely centralised to HQ in Dublin but thats why we have our beloved delegates. Of course the big go boys up in croker are going to be alienated from the average GAA joe naturally to a degree but thats why we have them there. They represent us as delegates and we vote for them at a club and county level to represent us

I know thats an extremely longwinded way to put it but thats what happens when i go in a speel

Bocerty i dont know where youre Getting that from but its up to the club members to turn up at that AGM and give their vote. Simply, it is and isnt a case of A select elite group making decision because its a committee and only the few lads and lasses on the committee do the paperwork!!

Oh Gm am i going senile with these long winded posts?

Is there ever EGMS to discuss important motions though?

speaking from experience Dammon the answer would be no - the important decisions appear to be made when there is a clique of the main members gathered together at a particular location where they know there will be no interference from other committee members who might voice a different opinion.

I take RMDs point about this inner circle existing because no one else would put the time and effort in, however when a band of people appear who all have the best interests of the club at heart and want to help and yet they are treated like lepers and every effort is made to keep the inner circle intact and let no one penetrate it.

I also get the impression that for alot of these men the running of the club is their therapy it is the be all and end all of their lives and without it they have nothing. But change isnt always a bad thing and sometimes it is very necessary to give some clubs a good kick up the backside

bocerty wrote:

dammon wrote:

gaamad1996 wrote:extremely democratic but heck the AGM is our version of your referendum as such and if there may be an extremely controversial motion, an EGM. Our County/National Conventions are the same as the Dail passing a bill so in all honesty our association is fine concerning its voting systems if ye ask me.The problem is down in rural areas like the woodlands of North Wexford hunter gatherers believe that power has been entirely centralised to HQ in Dublin but thats why we have our beloved delegates. Of course the big go boys up in croker are going to be alienated from the average GAA joe naturally to a degree but thats why we have them there. They represent us as delegates and we vote for them at a club and county level to represent us

I know thats an extremely longwinded way to put it but thats what happens when i go in a speel

Bocerty i dont know where youre Getting that from but its up to the club members to turn up at that AGM and give their vote. Simply, it is and isnt a case of A select elite group making decision because its a committee and only the few lads and lasses on the committee do the paperwork!!

Oh Gm am i going senile with these long winded posts?

Is there ever EGMS to discuss important motions though?

speaking from experience Dammon the answer would be no - the important decisions appear to be made when there is a clique of the main members gathered together at a particular location where they know there will be no interference from other committee
members who might voice a different opinion.

I take RMDs point about this inner circle existing because no one else would put the time and effort in, however when a band of people appear who all have the best interests of the club at heart and want to help and yet they are treated like lepers and every effort is made to keep the inner circle intact and let no one penetrate it.

I also get the impression that for alot of these men the running of the club is their therapy it is the be all and end all of their lives and without it they have nothing. But change isnt always a bad thing and sometimes it is very necessary to give some clubs a good kick up the backside

I think change is unnecessary in this case. Dammon there is an EGM next month in my club

gaamad1996 wrote:

bocerty wrote:

dammon wrote:

gaamad1996 wrote:extremely democratic but heck the AGM is our version of your referendum as such and if there may be an extremely controversial motion, an EGM. Our County/National Conventions are the same as the Dail passing a bill so in all honesty our association is fine concerning its voting systems if ye ask me.The problem is down in rural areas like the woodlands of North Wexford hunter gatherers believe that power has been entirely centralised to HQ in Dublin but thats why we have our beloved delegates. Of course the big go boys up in croker are going to be alienated from the average GAA joe naturally to a degree but thats why we have them there. They represent us as delegates and we vote for them at a club and county level to represent us

I know thats an extremely longwinded way to put it but thats what happens when i go in a speel

Bocerty i dont know where youre Getting that from but its up to the club members to turn up at that AGM and give their vote. Simply, it is and isnt a case of A select elite group making decision because its a committee and only the few lads and lasses on the committee do the paperwork!!

Oh Gm am i going senile with these long winded posts?

Is there ever EGMS to discuss important motions though?

speaking from experience Dammon the answer would be no - the important decisions appear to be made when there is a clique of the main members gathered together at a particular location where they know there will be no interference from other committee
members who might voice a different opinion.

I take RMDs point about this inner circle existing because no one else would put the time and effort in, however when a band of people appear who all have the best interests of the club at heart and want to help and yet they are treated like lepers and every effort is made to keep the inner circle intact and let no one penetrate it.

I also get the impression that for alot of these men the running of the club is their therapy it is the be all and end all of their lives and without it they have nothing. But change isnt always a bad thing and sometimes it is very necessary to give some clubs a good kick up the backside

I think change is unnecessary in this case. Dammon there is an EGM next month in my club

could you elaborate further GM as i dont quite follow what you mean.

Well bocerty I mean that at the Moment we have a fantastic system that functions well and although you may have your small inner group of elitist if you have a large enough club they can easily overthrown at AGM's consistently as is the case in my club i believe though that this overthrowing of small groups splits up the whole club and therefore cant function with bad social relations. basically if ye have separate groups then your club is liable to failings on and off the field. I cant see the democratic process in the GAA changing FOR the better as to me it cannot be improved

Read the above thread with some amusement and I have to admit a lot of contempt, inner circles me ****, if there are a few only looking for themselves they are very easily overturned. Are you sure your not the one with the "narrow vision". The club is the foundation of the GAA. It is where all are equal not matter how many years you have put in and the reason why, because everyone knows each other, not just the name but the individual.
The reason people get elected to Chair/Sec and treasurer is mainly due to the reason people know that they will do these jobs.
I am coming from another angle I have either been Chair/sec/co board rep/vice chair in my club for over the last 14 years and I am pulling out this year due to been involved with a too many underage teams something had to give.
I have been accused of all that boc has written about and have challenged people to either get/put up or shut up. I found people generally did the latter because it was the "easy way out".
My pet hate is the meeting after the meeting in the pub if you have anything to say mention it at the AGM and let it out have a cut a people and if anyone brings that out of a meeting they are the bigger gobsheens.
A point a few years ago a few lads in the club decided to help out the underage soccer and allow them use a pitch. I was the sec at the time and was training a bunch of U14 on the said pitch. I saw these soccer boys on our pitch marking stuff out and AFTER A FEW CHOICE WORDS RAN THEM.
Needless to say this caused a big noise all round and personally I didn't give a fcuk because it hadn't gone through the proper channels. Our AGM was coming up a few weeks later and I was threatened all kinds of **** so in the Sec's report I outlined what happened why I did what I did and I was prepared to answer any questions on the subject. I waited and waited and waited not one "hardy buck" opened there gob. But low and behold when we adjourned for a few scoops 3 brave souls went for me.
all I said was what chance they had of getting the use of the pitch was long gone as they failed to put up and left me in situ. Tones suddenly changed and I was the best thing since the slice pan and it was for the kids of the parish etc etc . They never got it.
Boc you don't seem to be a hurler on the ditch but unless you grab the bull by the horns forget it no one else is going to fight your battles. If a certain amount are disillusioned then stand up and be counted never mind moaning to cyberspace. We don't effect you or give you physical enjoyment (at least I hope not) but your club does.
Rem the club is the be all and end all, its the most valuable thing going because it does make us all a big family that looks out for each other, that falls in and out with each other nearly every match and for passion nothing can be surpassed.

GAAmad Gorey will never go just hurling they would lose too many and your losing them as it is to all the clubs around you.

Good post Jim - fair play.

JimWexford wrote:Read the above thread with some amusement and I have to admit a lot of contempt, inner circles me ****, if there are a few only looking for themselves they are very easily overturned. Are you sure your not the one with the "narrow vision". The club is the foundation of the GAA. It is where all are equal not matter how many years you have put in and the reason why, because everyone knows each other, not just the name but the individual.
The reason people get elected to Chair/Sec and treasurer is mainly due to the reason people know that they will do these jobs.
I am coming from another angle I have either been Chair/sec/co board rep/vice chair in my club for over the last 14 years and I am pulling out this year due to been involved with a too many underage teams something had to give.
I have been accused of all that boc has written about and have challenged people to either get/put up or shut up. I found people generally did the latter because it was the "easy way out".
My pet hate is the meeting after the meeting in the pub if you have anything to say
mention it at the AGM and let it out have a cut a people and if anyone brings that out of a meeting they are the bigger gobsheens.
A point a few years ago a few lads in the club decided to help out the underage soccer
and allow them use a pitch. I was the sec at the time and was training a bunch of U14 on the said pitch. I saw these soccer boys on our pitch marking stuff out and AFTER A FEW CHOICE WORDS RAN THEM.
Needless to say this caused a big noise all round and personally I didn't give a fcuk because it hadn't gone through the proper channels. Our AGM was coming up a few
weeks later and I was threatened all kinds of **** so in the Sec's report I outlined what happened why I did what I did and I was prepared to answer any questions on the subject. I waited and waited and waited not one "hardy buck" opened there gob.
But low and behold when we adjourned for a few scoops 3 brave souls went for me.
all I said was what chance they had of getting the use of the pitch was long gone as they failed to put up and left me in situ. Tones suddenly changed and I was the best thing since the slice pan and it was for the kids of the parish etc etc . They never got it.
Boc you don't seem to be a hurler on the ditch but unless you grab the bull by the
horns forget it no one else is going to fight your battles. If a certain amount are disillusioned then stand up and be counted never mind moaning to cyberspace. We don't effect you or give you physical enjoyment (at least I hope not) but your club does.
Rem the club is the be all and end all, its the most valuable thing going because it does make us all a big family that looks out for each other, that falls in and out with each other nearly every match and for passion nothing can be surpassed.

GAAmad Gorey will never go just hurling they would lose too many and your losing them as it is to all the clubs around you.

Well i agreee with all of what you have stated especially the after meeting chit chat alot more yapping from the non comitee members then occurs


But first of all with regard to my club. When you think of it we have only lost 4 overall as some came back to other clubs over the last 10 year or so and although this answer should be in PM where are the town clubs going Jim? Down the f-ing hole. I think although we arent gunna lose too many its worth it. Dont know about you Jim but I think my club has turned more into a social club more than anything. Its time we got up and started to make a change and try and get the club in a good direction to compete at Senior County championship FINAL level and STAY senior for well into the future instead of being senior for2 years and then intermediate for 2 we have up and coming talent in hurling we have to try and act on that by solely concentrating on hurling.....Jim if ye have anything else regarding the club PM me

I think we're straying from the point here lads....the thread was originally about giving ordinary GAA members a vote in big decisions, now we've moved onto cliques in GAA clubs. The only EGM that I remember my own club having was an internal matter (development) and I think that while people get a fair say about what the club does I think they don't get a fair say nationally

dammon wrote:I think we're straying from the point here lads....the thread was originally about giving ordinary GAA members a vote in big decisions, now we've moved onto cliques in GAA clubs. The only EGM that I remember my own club having was an internal matter (development) and I think that while people get a fair say about what the club does I think they don't get a fair say nationally

Not entirely dammon apart from my speel on my own clubbto jim....giving gaa members a vote in big decisions is part of the gaas overall voting system so no i think EGM and the running of a club committee is lated to the origanal thread


dammon fair say nationally is the same as saying that we should be all able to vote every week on a new bill that the dail passes. We have delegates if we have problems we contact our delegates sin e an sceal