Football Pedigree - the Top 10

Boxtyeater wrote:

EstherMayo1951 wrote:[
Whatever about Tyrone, but Offaly have an unbelievable GAA history and Pedigree. Séamus Darby in 1982?They also won the All-Irelands in 1971 and '72. Their hurling tradition is mighty too. Offaly deserve to be on the list, without a doubt.

Hi Essie...( as you're online) Grump here...I'm taking issue with the highlighted content of your post...
Pedigree, correct me if I'm wrong, is in the breeding (used loosely) strain...They may have history but they don't have pedigree ie. an history of success that involves various familial connections going back generations such as Kerry, Galway, Tipperary, Kilkenny or Cork have.
No place for Offaly on a top ten list IMO...

I disagree Boxty. If it was a top 5, I wouldn't include them, but being a top 10, I would. Offaly football(at a competitive level) goes back well into the 60's and even 50's. Based on their match with Kerry alone in 1982, I would consider them. However, they have a rich history. I would agree with you as regards Mayo, Galway and Kerry etc. having a more prolific history and pedigree, but it is a Top 10. Therefore, I include Uíbh Fháilí!

EstherMayo1951 wrote:Based on their match with Kerry alone in 1982, I would consider them.

Ah now I understand. Pedigree = one flukey goal to win it at the end of a game. You're right, not too many teams could live up to that.

Pedigree is something that unsuccessful teams dwell on as a way of ignoring their recent lack of success. Mayo, Dubllin, Cavan are all cases in point.

RMDrive wrote:

EstherMayo1951 wrote:Based on their match with Kerry alone in 1982, I would consider them.

Ah now I understand. Pedigree = one flukey goal to win it at the end of a game. You're right, not too many teams could live up to that.

Pedigree is something that unsuccessful teams dwell on as a way of ignoring their recent lack of success. Mayo, Dubllin, Cavan are all cases in point.

Re-read my post. Considering them, does not translate to actually picking them. Offaly, however, did terrific in that match and deserved their win. They won it in '71 and '72 if you haven't forgotten? They were competitive in the '60s and even the '50s. Based on that, I would choose them.

EstherMayo1951 wrote:

RMDrive wrote:

EstherMayo1951 wrote:Based on their match with Kerry alone in 1982, I would consider them.

Ah now I understand. Pedigree = one flukey goal to win it at the end of a game. You're right, not too many teams could live up to that.

Pedigree is something that unsuccessful teams dwell on as a way of ignoring their recent lack of success. Mayo, Dubllin, Cavan are all cases in point.

Re-read my post. Considering them, does not translate to actually picking them. Offaly, however, did terrific in that match and deserved their win. They won it in '71 and '72 if you haven't forgotten? They were competitive in the '60s and even the '50s. Based on that, I would choose them.

Reverse Esther, reverse!! You clearly stated that based on that one match alone you woulld consider them, clearly implying that one match us enough to achieve pedigree. I don't think it was a terriffic match either. It was an exciting ending and it's always good to see the underdog win, but it wasn't a terriffic match.

If you are going to make a point then at least argue the case for it or admit that it was wrong, don't try to suggest that you never made it.

Consider :
To fix the mind on, with a view to a careful examination; to think on with care; to ponder; to study; to meditate on.

There's the definition for you RMD.

EstherMayo1951 wrote:Consider :
To fix the mind on, with a view to a careful examination; to think on with care; to ponder; to study; to meditate on.

There's the definition for you RMD.

Very good esther. Nice googling. Why don't I just pretend you didn't say it and that will make it all better for you huh?

RMDrive wrote:

EstherMayo1951 wrote:Consider :
To fix the mind on, with a view to a careful examination; to think on with care; to ponder; to study; to meditate on.

There's the definition for you RMD.

Very good esther. Nice googling. Why don't I just pretend you didn't say it and that will make it all better for you huh?

Why would you pretend I didn't say 'consider??' I have re-iterated that I have said it, and provided you with a definiton! You make me laugh sometimes RMD!!!!

You said that Offaly should be considered for inclusion in the "pedigree" list on the basis of one game alone. I suggested this was not very sensible. Since then you have tried to suggest that you didn't say this or that somehow the word consider is the most important bit.

Do you still believe that one match is enough to warrent inclusion in this so-called pedigree list?

RMDrive wrote:You said that Offaly should be considered for inclusion in the "pedigree" list on the basis of one game alone. I suggested this was not very sensible. Since then you have tried to suggest that you didn't say this or that somehow the word consider is the most important bit.

Do you still believe that one match is enough to warrent inclusion in this so-called pedigree list?

let me clear that up so there is no more confusion

Do you still believe that one match is enough to warrent considering inclusion in this so-called pedigree list?

Dougal wrote:[let me clear that up so there is no more confusion

Do you still believe that one match is enough to warrent considering inclusion in this so-called pedigree list?

Pedigree, without googling or else, to me is like breeding dogs, you must have the strain...
Galway have 3 generations of Donnellans, KK have their Larkins, Cork are un-quantifiable..Tipp have the Doyles etc...Pedigree is in the genes..
Offaly have no pedigree to speak of...reached football finals (2) in the early 60's, and kept at it. If it weren't for the Walsh Island club at the edge of the bog, where their greatest men came from, football wise, they'd have nothing...

RMD...lock this thread..

Pedigree is for chumps. Offaly put 90% of counties to shame. Pound for pound they are probably the greatest GAA county in the land.

Sadly, you being a Connacht man like myself, I'm warming to Loyal's opinion of you....check your texts there gorsóón...

Boxtyeater wrote: I'm warming to Loyals onion's

Whatever

No txt's from leitrim, try pressing the 'send' button there young lad

mossbags wrote:

Boxtyeater wrote: I'm warming to Loyals onion's

Whatever

No txt's from leitrim, try pressing the 'send' button there young lad

DBP esque...

Since the association was really only founded in 2003 the top ten should read something like this.

1. Tyrone
2. Kerry
3. Cork
4. Armagh
5. Mayo
6. Dublin
7. Meath
8. Galway
9. Donegal
10. Laois

Typical Mugbake would put Tyrone 1st, Total 100% biasness if I ever seen it!

I would say most competitive decade was the 60's. Down, Meath, Dublin, Galway and Kerry won. No, it's not as many winners as the 90's but all the same you had consistently strong teams winning multiple provincial titles and all challenging for All Ireland Honours. You had the Mighty Down and Galway teams, the emergence of a very strong Kerry team including O'Connell, Murphy and Dwyer and then both the Leinster kingpins.

Personally, I think Down should be 2 stops higher up the list with Cork also above Meath and Cavan.

Otherwise very accurate.

ardsanspeir wrote:I would say most competitive decade was the 60's. Down, Meath, Dublin, Galway and Kerry won. No, it's not as many winners as the 90's but all the same you had consistently strong teams winning multiple provincial titles and all challenging for All Ireland Honours. You had the Mighty Down and Galway teams, the emergence of a very strong Kerry team including O'Connell, Murphy and Dwyer and then both the Leinster kingpins.

Personally, I think Down should be 2 stops higher up the list with Cork also above Meath and Cavan.

Otherwise very accurate.

Good post, I would be broadly in agreement. The old heads who know about stuff tend to go on a lot about the Down team of the 60s and it was clearly a great era for football with a lot of great sides from the more traditional counties coming together at roughly around the same time. You could say that Down more than Cavan set the template for the Ulster teams to come.

ardsanspeir wrote:Personally, I think Down should be 2 stops higher up the list with Cork also above Meath and Cavan.

Otherwise very accurate.

Thank you ardsanspeir ... finally a man who knows a bit about football here ...

mossbags wrote:You could say that Down more than Cavan set the template for the Ulster teams to come.

So is that Cavan's fault then? And the follow on being that Down should be higher than Cavan cos the rest of Ulster followed Down in the 60s but not Cavan in the 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s .... I need a lie down ...

Jayo Cluxton wrote:

mossbags wrote:You could say that Down more than Cavan set the template for the Ulster teams to come.

So is that Cavan's fault then? And the follow on being that Down should be higher than Cavan cos the rest of Ulster followed Down in the 60s but not Cavan in the 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s .... I need a lie down ...

Downs pedigree lies on their team from this Golden age of football and the great side from the early 90s.No one even remembers the Cavan team but the Down teams are still talked about to this day not least because of how they played against Kerry. Anyone will tell you that Down should be higher up that list.

Accept that Moss. But Cavan were trail blazers in Ulster for nearly 40 years!!! Why were they alone?? Why did no Ulster team look at Cavan success and say - that could be us ..... hardly Cavan's fault and hardly a reason for them to be marked below Down??

Jayo Cluxton wrote:Accept that Moss. But Cavan were trail blazers in Ulster for nearly 40 years!!! Why were they alone?? Why did no Ulster team look at Cavan success and say - that could be us ..... hardly Cavan's fault and hardly a reason for them to be marked below Down??

Thats a fair point. Of course their may have been reasons for this, particularly in the six counties perhaps that the likes of me and you might be fairly oblivios to here Jayo.

Personally I'd still have Down well ahead of Cavan and probably in my top five.
Cavan may well have been trail blazers for 40odd years or whatever but that was an awful long time ago. Didn't you scratch Wexford for that very reason.

mossbags wrote:
Thats a fair point. Of course their may have been reasons for this, particularly in the six counties perhaps that the likes of me and you might be fairly oblivios to here Jayo.

Personally I'd still have Down well ahead of Cavan and probably in my top five.
Cavan may well have been trail blazers for 40odd years or whatever but that was an awful long time ago. Didn't you scratch Wexford for that very reason.

Ah I scratched Wexford (and Tipp too I think) for shortivity - opposite of longevity perhaps?

The Six Counties question is interesting - and one for Boc, NSG, TC et al more than me. Two points here though - with regard to the '3' counties how come Monaghan and Donegal did nothing in all the time Cavan were thriving? And no offence RMD (he knows this anyway) but it is astounding to me (anyway) that Donegal only won Ulster for the first time in ........ 1972!!!!

Secondly when Down came to the fore in the 60s why did it take so long for others to follow - fully accepting the horrendous political situation.

I'd say in order for a county to be seen to have footballing pedigree they should win AI in at least 2 decades and win at least 2 AI with 2 completely different teams with no player on both AI wins.