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GAA and Mental Illness

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Post  Thomas Clarke Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:13 am

Last week's tragic death of young Galway hurler Niall Donohue has once more pushed the subject of mental illness into the national spotlight.

Few would dispute that this is a major problem in the country, and the GPA recently said that depression is the number one reason that members call their counselling hotline. Despite this, it remains in many ways a taboo topic in our country and organisation.

Can the GAA or GPA be doing more to help their members suffering from mental illnesses and, if so, what can realistically be done?
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Post  bocerty Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:26 am

TC its probably one of the biggest challenges facing us all now and as for a way forward i wouldn't have a clue where to start.

Personally i was always a bit dismissive of the 'illness' and in many cases thought it was folk feeling sorry for themselves and looking a bit of sympathy (i still think there is an element of that in some cases)  however i watched a documentary one night earlier this year and it changed/softened my attitude somewhat.  The article below appeared in this weeks Gaelic life and its interesting to read that Donoghue's mates all knew he had this condition and were watching out for him - can you realistically watch someone 24/7 unless they are couped up somewhere?

Closer to home there was an awful incident of a guy on his way home from his mother-in-laws wake who stopped of to collect a gun and took his own life.  Cant even begin to imagine what his wife went through buring her mother and then having to do the same to her husband and the father of 3 kids the oldest of whom is 8!!!!!

I's still be of the opinion there is nothing that bad in this world that suicide is the only answer - an incredibly selfish thing to do in my opinion.

Brolly: Life’s a bitch and then you die

We have had a tea cup in the house for the last twenty five years. We don’t drink from it anymore. Instead, it sits on a high shelf, safe from the kids. On the side of the cup, there is a middle aged man sitting on a sofa, bored stiff, supping sorrowfully from a tin of lager and watching the telly. The caption underneath reads “Life is a bitch. Then you die.” My wife often remarks on how absolutely true that is. And we have everything.

Last week, 22 year old Galway hurler Niall Donoghue hanged himself. The kid’s mother died when he was young. His beloved grandmother took her daughter’s place all those years ago. In turn, she herself died in the past year, no doubt consoled that she had nursed him to safety. The young man had suffered from depression from years. He was being expertly treated for it. His team mates on the Galway squad had been made aware of his problems and given advice on what to look out for.

He was a terrific hurler and came from a tight knit hurling community. Everything seemed okay. He had it all ahead of him. Now, he is dead and there is nothing anyone can do.

Sometimes, people drift outside the circle of life and don’t want to come back in.  During the week, I sat outside a small cafe in Belfast with a friend. His sister in law took her own life exactly a year ago. A beautiful, talented girl, she had become depressed and slowly drifted out from shore. In spite of everything that was done to bring her back, she didn’t want to come. We shake our heads and wonder how this can be so. As our coffee cups are refilled, we agree that in truth, the end can be merciful for some people.

It is hard to know what lessons we can learn from this latest death. Life is beautiful, but it is a sorrowful mystery. In 1982, lightweight champion Ray Boom Boom Mancini put his world title on the line against South Korean Duk Koo Kim. It was war. In the fourteenth gruelling round, Kim finally went down under a blistering salvo, his head crashing off the deck.

Ralph Wiley of Sports Illustrated, covering the fight, later described Kim scrabbling to pull himself up the ropes as “One of the greatest physical feats I had ever witnessed.”

The grisly reason for this was that the mortal blow had already been struck. As he tried to haul himself to his feet, Kim was dying. He saw that shore receding and desperately wanted to swim back. He never made it. Lying on the bloody canvas, he slipped into a coma and two days later, died in hospital.

Before leaving his hotel room for the fight, he had scrawled “Live or Die” on the lampshade. After the fight, Kim’s mother travelled from Korea to be with him in the hospital, holding his hand to the bitter end. Then, heartbroken, she went back to her hotel room and took her own life. A few months later, the referee Richard Green took his own life. A trail of bereavement and death. A young man who with his last conscious instinct strove for life. A mother and a referee who didn’t want to live any longer. How do we begin to make sense of it?

When I was a young fellow, one of my Dungiven team mates took his own life. Fergal Higgins was a handsome, charismatic and talented boy. He had recently won an All-Ireland freshers medal with Queen’s University. On the day of the final, captain Joe Kennedy was unavailable and it was Fergal who was chosen to lift the cup.

The photo of the boy grinning broadly as he holds the cup aloft for his delighted team mates is immortalised in the trophy cabinet at Queen’s. The world was his oyster. One minute he was amongst us, vibrant and young and giving life a go. The next, he was gone. His brother Gavin is a stalwart around the club. His twin boys Seamus & Fergal are our undisputed underage stars. I cannot watch them play without thinking of their fresh faced uncle smiling broadly. For us he will be forever young.

In 2009, the suicide of German goalie Robert Enke prompted amateur psychiatrists in the media to create a narrative. The pat conclusion was that the pressures of professional sport were too great and that his concealment of his depression from his club and team mates contributed to his death. The solution was to be open about depression. Yet Enke had been seeing a psychiatrist for years and his family were intimately aware of the details of his condition.

At the time of his death, he was 32 years old and widely tipped to be announced as Germany’s number 1 keeper for the forthcoming World Cup campaign. He was happily married to a devoted wife and had a baby girl. On a chilly morning in November 2009, Enke kissed his wife Teresa and 10-month-old daughter goodbye as usual and left the house, saying he was going to training.

Instead, he drove to a railway crossing, parked his car and walked calmly onto the tracks. The train driver didn’t see him. Who knows? His first daughter died when she was six. Perhaps that bereavement was in the end too much for him to bear. Perhaps there is no rational explanation.

A few days ago, I was with a young friend who is struggling badly with life. A good person and an immensely popular one, things have disintegrated for him for no apparent reason. At the moment, he is under the care of experts, living in a specialised unit and there is no way of knowing how things will go. I have been surrounded with life, death and unbearable poignancy for the last few years.

Because of that, I know that it is untrue to say that he has every reason to go on. All I can say is that we would love him to find a way to go on, a way for him to find some peace. We would love him to find his way back to shore. But life is not so simple.
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Post  Thomas Clarke Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:27 pm

You make a lot of good points Boc, some I'd agree with and a couple not so much.

I strongly agree that it is a huge problem in our society and, as a result, I would like to see the GAA take an active role in trying to help.  The GPA said last month that depression was the biggest issue for players calling its counselling phoneline.

I read elsewhere the view that the GAA should remain outside of social issues, thus creating an environment where people with problems can temporarily escape from them, but I think the organisation is uniquely placed in our country in its ability to reach people and, therefore, should try to do so.

Some people have suggested that clubs/counties should train and use counsellors the same way they do physios, but that is grossly underestimating the severity of the problems that mentally ill people face.  A quiet, well-intentioned chat is rarely the answer.  For example, my sister has been a mental health professional for many years but, despite her qualifications and working with certain patients on a very regular basis, there are some people that she just hasn't been able to save.

While not being able to provide treatment for sufferers, I do feel that the GAA could do something to promote greater awareness, understanding and acceptance of mental illness among its members.  

'Suicide' is a word seldom used in Ireland.  Look at the reporting of Niall Donohue's death.  Not a single paper mentioned the word 'suicide' or 'hanging'. They said that the young man 'died suddenly'.  If we keep sweeping mental illness under the carpet and pretending it doesn't exist, then sufferers will continue to keep quiet about the turmoil raging in their own heads.

The facts bear this out too.  I read recently that 80% of women who commit suicide will have consulted a doctor about their problem at some stage, yet that number falls to less than 50% in men, strongly indicating that men are much more reluctant to ask for help, even when they feel that they are cornered.  It is this sort of mindset that I'd like to think the GAA could help change, via a centrally co-ordinated campaign.

Like yourself Boc, I would once have thought that suicide is selfish, but I would no longer be of that opinion.  The brain is a remarkably delicate organ, and many things can cause one person's brain to operate very differently to another's.  I think that most people who are the stage where they take their own life are unable to be able to think as 'normally' as you or I.  It's not that they think that suicide is the answer, but rather they feel that it is the only option as there are no answers.

It's very sad indeed, and a problem that needs to be addressed.  I'd like to see the GAA take a greater lead on many social issues, and this is one of the most important.  Unfortunately, it won't help Niall Donohue, but perhaps it may help others like him.
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Post  Boxtyeater Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:40 pm

I seem to have missed this thread on my incursions here lately. There are a lot of valid points made, none of which will return Niall Donoghue to his fold. His is indeed a sad story.
It's hard to see, referring to TC's point where the GAA can actually do anything. The organisation are in somewhat of a "no mans land" really. Kilbecanty were aware of the fragile nature of Niall's case and were, in fact, powerless to act in a meaningful way. It's all a closely guarded issue in honesty. I'll borrow from TC...

"For example, my sister has been a mental health professional for many years but, despite her qualifications and working with certain patients on a very regular basis, there are some people that she just hasn't been able to save."

My sister-in-law is in the same position, but suffering from it. Too earnest/kind/involved. She's not a chronic depressive but lurches between highs and lows. The lows are heart-wrenching, she worries about her children who are all safe, sound and earning but there's no talking her out of it. She's unlikely to take the ultimate step but I've advised her to jack the job ta' fook and live a little. Her riposte is "what if Junior Og loses his job, what will happen them" and all this mythical stuff. Junior will survive you needn't fear..

Not funny, but she takes too much to heart. There's a tricky profession I can tell you.

Meanwhile:
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Post  Grenvile Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:36 pm

This is a topic that I really want to give a good contribution to but for now I'll just say that claiming that suicide is an extremely selfish thing to do displays a fundamental misunderstanding of mental illness.

I'll also say that Joe Brolly's "hard hitting" article on this in Gaelic Life recently should never have seen print, an extremely irresponsible piece to write. There may be truth in what he says but for anyone struggling with mental illness to read that some people just drift away from the shores of 'normal life' and commit suicide no matter how much help they are given, it's a dangerous thing to read for anyone in despair.
The ONLY message that should be put out there by anyone with any real concern for this problem is that no matter how terrible your despair, no matter how insurmountable the turmoil in your head becomes, you are not past the point of help.
Alan O'Meara and Bressie on the Saturday Night Show last night gave a fairly hard hitting but optimistic account of their battle with mental illness.

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Post  Thomas Clarke Sun Nov 17, 2013 10:11 pm

I don't know, JS. I can see where you are coming from when you say that messages of positivity are of the utmost importance, but then another part of me sees that as more sweeping of the problem under the carpet. You sort of concede that there are some people who are beyond help, so I have to wonder if a positive/hopeful article would really make any difference to those people anyway.

Brolly is not medically qualified to comment definitively on the subject, but the article isn't presented as medical fact, despite the confidence with which Joe always asserts his opinion. If it is just an opinion piece, then I'm not sure that it is any more out of place than other opinion pieces in other papers.

I know what you are saying about bombarding the afflicted with positivity, but I just fear that will send out the wrong message about mental illness to an already ill-informed public.
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Post  bocerty Sun Nov 17, 2013 10:47 pm

Jonsmith wrote:This is a topic that I really want to give a good contribution to but for now I'll just say that claiming that suicide is an extremely selfish thing to do displays a fundamental misunderstanding of mental illness.

I'll also say that Joe Brolly's "hard hitting" article on this in Gaelic Life recently should never have seen print, an extremely irresponsible piece to write. There may be truth in what he says but for anyone struggling with mental illness to read that some people just drift away from the shores of 'normal life' and commit suicide no matter how much help they are given, it's a dangerous thing to read for anyone in despair.
The ONLY message that should be put out there by anyone with any real concern for this problem is that no matter how terrible your despair, no matter how insurmountable the turmoil in your head becomes, you are not past the point of help.
Alan O'Meara and Bressie on the Saturday Night Show last night gave a fairly hard hitting but optimistic account of their battle with mental illness.
JS your not wrong in saying it displays a fundamental misunderstanding of mental illness, i know as much about it as you do i'd say - but i think sometimes people convince themselves they have a mental illness when they dont really and folk pussyfoot round them all the time and only add to the problem. Its a bit like children being 'diagnosed' with ADHD and all sorts, in many cases they have no such ailment the only thing they suffer from is bad parenting.

Now dont get me wrong its not that i dont have sympathy for those with mental illnesses, i certainly do as TC says the brain is a very delicate part of the body. Answer me this - a man or woman who is married with kids decides to take their own life and leaves a partner with no husband/wife and kids with no mother/father, siblings with no brother/sister and parents with a dead son/daughter. Tell me how that isnt selfish, everyone else is left to pick up the pieces and its a life sentence to deal with, with the strong possibility that another member of the same family will repeat the actions. Tell me how that isnt a selfish thing to do. Yes life can get tough and all sorts of scenarios present themselves from time to time which lead folk to believe there is no way out but there has to be a way out rather than taking your own life.
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Post  Thomas Clarke Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:14 pm

bocerty wrote: Answer me this - a man or woman who is married with kids decides to take their own life and leaves a partner with no husband/wife and kids with no mother/father, siblings with no brother/sister and parents with a dead son/daughter.  Tell me how that isnt selfish, everyone else is left to pick up the pieces and its a life sentence to deal with, with the strong possibility that another member of the same family will repeat the actions.  Tell me how that isnt a selfish thing to do.
I'd initially consider another question.  In the scenario you have described, who is in the worst situation: The people left behind, or the person who is dead?

'Selfish' normally refers to an act designed to derive personal gain, and I don't think that ever applies to suicide.
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Post  Grenvile Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:57 pm

Thomas Clarke wrote:I don't know, JS.  I can see where you are coming from when you say that messages of positivity are of the utmost importance, but then another part of me sees that as more sweeping of the problem under the carpet.  You sort of concede that there are some people who are beyond help, so I have to wonder if a positive/hopeful article would really make any difference to those people anyway.

Brolly is not medically qualified to comment definitively on the subject, but the article isn't presented as medical fact, despite the confidence with which Joe always asserts his opinion.  If it is just an opinion piece, then I'm not sure that it is any more out of place than other opinion pieces in other papers.

I know what you are saying about bombarding the afflicted with positivity, but I just fear that will send out the wrong message about mental illness to an already ill-informed public.
It's an opinion that could potentially have a very dangerous effect on someone reading it that already feels vulnerable TC. Someone despairing reads that and thinks, What if I'm one of those people drifting away from shore, what if I'm simply beyond help. It is an opinion piece on a very delicate subject matter and I'll stand by what I said, it should never have been printed.

I don't see how positive message are sweeping it under the carpet or sending out the wrong message? I believe the messages that need to be send out are one of acceptance of mental illness as a real concern and openness in approaching medical health professionals to deal with it. I don't see a place for conceding that yes some will be beyond help. Who does that benefit?

Bocerty there is an element of an old school stoic approach in your opinion. Pussy footing around people who 'think' they have a mental illness only makes things worse? I think that's woefully ignorant if you don't mind me saying. Should you give them a kick in the **** and tell them to get on with things?
Depression and anxiety are real mental health issues which can be recognised and diagnosed by medical professionals. Opinions as stated in your opening paragraph are what create the stigma around mental health problems and prevent people seeking help. It is not something to be simply shaken off or dealt with by powering through, it's not a notion someone takes that they can simply change their mind and be happy if they choose.

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Post  Thomas Clarke Mon Nov 18, 2013 12:12 am

Jonsmith wrote: I don't see how positive message are sweeping it under the carpet or sending out the wrong message? I believe the messages that need to be send out are one of acceptance of mental illness as a real concern and openness in approaching medical health professionals to deal with it. I don't see a place for conceding that yes some will be beyond help. Who does that benefit?
I guess I find that a bit contradictory, JS.  You talk about sending out a message of acceptance of mental illness, yet want to hide parts of that message because it may tip someone over the edge.  I would see that as an extension of the 'passed away suddenly' mentality, along the lines of 'well if we don't talk about it, it will all be ok'.  

You ask who does it benefit?  Well, openness would, in all likelihood, enable the friends and families of such people to more easily come to terms with the death, avoiding feelings of guilt and helping them accept that there was nothing they could have done to prevent it.

I know where you are coming from and, though I'd veer towards the opposing view, I can see the point you are making regarding the risks of Brolly's article.  There is no ideal solution to what, in some tragic cases, is an unsolvable problem.
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Post  bocerty Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:02 am

Thomas Clarke wrote:
bocerty wrote: Answer me this - a man or woman who is married with kids decides to take their own life and leaves a partner with no husband/wife and kids with no mother/father, siblings with no brother/sister and parents with a dead son/daughter.  Tell me how that isnt selfish, everyone else is left to pick up the pieces and its a life sentence to deal with, with the strong possibility that another member of the same family will repeat the actions.  Tell me how that isnt a selfish thing to do.
I'd initially consider another question.  In the scenario you have described, who is in the worst situation: The people left behind, or the person who is dead?

'Selfish' normally refers to an act designed to derive personal gain, and I don't think that ever applies to suicide.
TC thats a good question and definitely one worth debating though i doubt you'll ever find an acceptable answer.

For me the person who is dead is now in a better place, the worrying is over their troubles behind them (though i suppose that depends on your opinion of what happens beyond this life) those left behind carry that cross on a daily basis and there are bad days a plenty.

JS i dont mean to come across as ignorant so apologies if it appears that way. I am guessing from what appears to me as a learned opinion on the matter that it is something that has impacted you closely, i dont mean to make little of the illness though i do have two members of an extended family who 'suffer' from bouts of depression and i suppose where i am coming from is when i look at what they have in life i often wonder what the have to be depressed about, and sometimes i do think to myself a good kick up the ar5e is required.

That said the documentary i referred to earlier in this thread featured a guy from TCs neck of the woods in east Tyrone - at 40 this man had his money made was financially secure had a lovely house family cars, you name it he had it and yet he had battled with depression for years and had even tried to throw himself out of the upstairs window of his mansion.

Perhaps its an illness that hasnt affected me closely enough for me to give a proper opinion on it. Though i agree with TC that if it where talked about more openly there would be less of a stigma attached to it. The always say the first step to recovery from alcoholism is to admit you are an alcoholic same with a gambler. Is mental health in the same boat or is it a different beast altogether?
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Post  Thomas Clarke Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:41 am

bocerty wrote:
TC thats a good question and definitely one worth debating though i doubt you'll ever find an acceptable answer.

For me the person who is dead is now in a better place, the worrying is over their troubles behind them (though i suppose that depends on your opinion of what happens beyond this life) those left behind carry that cross on a daily basis and there are bad days a plenty.

JS i dont mean to come across as ignorant so apologies if it appears that way.  I am guessing from what appears to me as a learned opinion on the matter that it is something that has impacted you closely, i dont mean to make little of the illness though i do have two members of an extended family who 'suffer' from bouts of depression and i suppose where i am coming from is when i look at what they have in life i often wonder what the have to be depressed about, and sometimes i do think to myself a good kick up the ar5e is required.

That said the documentary i referred to earlier in this thread featured a guy from TCs neck of the woods in east Tyrone - at 40 this man had his money made was financially secure had a lovely house family cars, you name it he had it and yet he had battled with depression for years and had even tried to throw himself out of the upstairs window of his mansion.
Hmm, not the answer I was anticipating, Boc!  You say that the worries of the deceased are over and that is correct, but so too is anything positive that they could have enjoyed. Suicide ends their suffering, but it also ends everything good in their life, including the potential for good things to come their way in the future.  To me, those left alive are in the much better position as, no matter how lonely or how tough things are for them, there is always the possibility that some good things will come their way.

I'm not sure that the majority of suicidal people will really believe that they are heading to a better place.  Most religions frown on it so, if they are religious, they probably aren't expecting the red carpet treatment at the gates of heaven (they'll at least be afraid of what lies ahead).  Conversely, if they are atheist, they are essentially saying that the end of the one life they will ever have is better than the pain they are enduring.  Neither of these are particularly enticing prospects, and perhaps illustrate the desperate situation that suicidal people face themselves in.  

Your comment about the people who have little to be depressed about is a very common sentiment.  It's maybe worth comparing mental illness to physical illness in this case.  For example, you look at a big, strong athlete who you think must be in the best of health.  Chiselled body, 6 pack, the works.  You'd never imagine that they could be ill, as they seem to be in great health.  But that person could be very unwell inside, their body being attacked by cancerous cells.  

Mental illness is similar.  You look at the outside factors (the family, wife, house, job, money etc) and can't understand how they could be suffering but, as with the previous example, the problem is on the inside.  Just because we can't see it doesn't mean that it isn't there.

Nowadays, when someone tells you that they have cancer you understand what they are going through, because you know what cancer is and how it works.  However, 250 years ago no-one understood what it was or how it worked.  Mental illness will eventually become more mapped out too, and we will all understand it better.
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Post  bocerty Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:54 am

I suppose TC when it boils down to it i suppose what i am really saying is that i have been fortunate enough in my life that i havent had any of these obstacles to overcome which can perhaps trigger the anxiety and depression, long may it continue but i would have an issue of some sort trying to comprehend some folk and their alleged illness.

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Post  Grenvile Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:15 pm

Thomas Clarke wrote:
Jonsmith wrote: I don't see how positive message are sweeping it under the carpet or sending out the wrong message? I believe the messages that need to be send out are one of acceptance of mental illness as a real concern and openness in approaching medical health professionals to deal with it. I don't see a place for conceding that yes some will be beyond help. Who does that benefit?
I guess I find that a bit contradictory, JS.  You talk about sending out a message of acceptance of mental illness, yet want to hide parts of that message because it may tip someone over the edge.  I would see that as an extension of the 'passed away suddenly' mentality, along the lines of 'well if we don't talk about it, it will all be ok'.  

You ask who does it benefit?  Well, openness would, in all likelihood, enable the friends and families of such people to more easily come to terms with the death, avoiding feelings of guilt and helping them accept that there was nothing they could have done to prevent it.

I know where you are coming from and, though I'd veer towards the opposing view, I can see the point you are making regarding the risks of Brolly's article.  There is no ideal solution to what, in some tragic cases, is an unsolvable problem.
I don't think I'm contradicting myself but perhaps I haven't explained it well enough. I think when someone commits suicide it should be open. Yes this person committed suicide, if the person was receiving treatment for a mental illness then say so and let people make of that what they will but the message should never be as it was in Brolly's article, some people are simply beyond help. Someone will see that message and think, that's me, I'm beyond help, and this can and will add to overwhelming despair.
I can see where you're coming from regarding the family, I know a family that lost a daughter to suicide last year and the father said that he knew in his heart that he had done all he could and gotten her the very best help and care available, I'm sure that gave him and his family some small comfort.
But as regards informing people about mental illness there is no place for admitting that some simply cannot be helped because part of the people you are informing are the sufferers.

You don't need something to be depressed about to suffer, that's the nature of it. Look at Bressie and Alan O'Meara, two lads with the world at their feet, jobs they love, popular, charismatic. Again, it's a misunderstanding of the illness. Boc I'm genuinely happy that you've never had to deal with it but I'd advise you that if it ever comes to your door remember it's not a mood, it's not something to be snapped out of, far better dealt with when the problem is smaller than the person believes than an attempted kick in the **** to someone who is suffering for real.

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Post  Thomas Clarke Thu Nov 28, 2013 11:40 pm

I see yet another young footballer died 'unexpectedly' this week. Tyrone lad this time. Very, very sad.

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Post  bocerty Fri Nov 29, 2013 9:53 am

Thomas Clarke wrote:I see yet another young footballer died 'unexpectedly' this week.  Tyrone lad this time.  Very, very sad.

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sad indeed TC - so young and talented by the sounds of it. Never a good time for this to happen but in the mouth of Christmas must be about the worst.
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