All Not Well in Donegal?

Page 3 of 4 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: All Not Well in Donegal?

Post  Thomas Clarke on Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:12 pm

Boxtyeater wrote:
Could Jim's tenure be coming to an end?

If it is, it would be a very unjust way for it to end. The last 18 months have been disappointing, and a long sumer run seems unlikely at this moment. Still, what he achieved in his first 2 years is, in my opinion, the greatest managerial feat in the history of gaelic football.

Thomas Clarke
GAA Elite
GAA Elite

Tyrone
Number of posts : 4209

Back to top Go down

Re: All Not Well in Donegal?

Post  Boxtyeater on Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:21 pm

Thomas Clarke wrote:
RMD probably neck deep in peace talks as we speak.  Omar obtaining finance for any sweeteners that may be needed.  I'd expect the party line to be delivered by both in the coming hours.

I'm expecting the standard riposte from RMD along the lines of "Nothing to see here"....

Possibly "the party" has been going on too long....

Edit... for what it's worth....http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/gaelic-games/27229767

Boxtyeater
GAA Elite
GAA Elite

Leitrim
Number of posts : 6970

Back to top Go down

Re: All Not Well in Donegal?

Post  champers on Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:21 pm

A storm in a tea cup mchugh is hardly a loss the rest of them never heard of them,maybe jim's wages at celtic are causing a problem


champers
200 posts for rank
200 posts for rank

dublin
Number of posts : 181

Back to top Go down

Re: All Not Well in Donegal?

Post  champers on Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:22 pm

Thomas Clarke wrote:
Boxtyeater wrote:
Could Jim's tenure be coming to an end?

If it is, it would be a very unjust way for it to end.  The last 18 months have been disappointing, and a long sumer run seems unlikely at this moment.  Still, what he achieved in his first 2 years is, in my opinion, the greatest managerial feat in the history of gaelic football.

bit over the top

champers
200 posts for rank
200 posts for rank

dublin
Number of posts : 181

Back to top Go down

Re: All Not Well in Donegal?

Post  Thomas Clarke on Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:24 pm

champers wrote:
Thomas Clarke wrote:
Boxtyeater wrote:
Could Jim's tenure be coming to an end?

If it is, it would be a very unjust way for it to end.  The last 18 months have been disappointing, and a long sumer run seems unlikely at this moment.  Still, what he achieved in his first 2 years is, in my opinion, the greatest managerial feat in the history of gaelic football.

bit over the top

I don't think so. Given where he took them from and to, and the space of time in which he did it. I can't think of anything comparable.

Thomas Clarke
GAA Elite
GAA Elite

Tyrone
Number of posts : 4209

Back to top Go down

Re: All Not Well in Donegal?

Post  champers on Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:40 pm

Thomas Clarke wrote:
champers wrote:
Thomas Clarke wrote:
Boxtyeater wrote:
Could Jim's tenure be coming to an end?

If it is, it would be a very unjust way for it to end.  The last 18 months have been disappointing, and a long sumer run seems unlikely at this moment.  Still, what he achieved in his first 2 years is, in my opinion, the greatest managerial feat in the history of gaelic football.

bit over the top



I don't think so.  Given where he took them from and to, and the space of time in which he did it.  I can't think of anything comparable.

jim done a good job but plenty counties came from no where to win sam and built great teams,jim has not built a great team yet,remember reading a book a couple of years ago and athony molloy wrote that jim was going for the managers job for donegal and what he wanted to do was mind boggling stuff -which he delivered on

Maybe going to celtic side tracked jim ?

champers
200 posts for rank
200 posts for rank

dublin
Number of posts : 181

Back to top Go down

Re: All Not Well in Donegal?

Post  patk on Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:41 pm

champers wrote:A storm in a tea cup mchugh is hardly a loss the rest of them never heard of them,maybe jim's wages at celtic are causing a problem


Hardly a loss? McHugh was a key part of Donegal's AI win and an all-star the same year. Donegal aren't blessed with a deep squad so a player like that will be missed. I don't know the ins and outs of the situation, but I can't see how Donegal losing one of their better players in recent years is anything but a loss.

patk
200 posts for rank
200 posts for rank

monaghan
Number of posts : 51

Back to top Go down

Re: All Not Well in Donegal?

Post  champers on Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:45 pm

patk wrote:
champers wrote:A storm in a tea cup mchugh is hardly a loss the rest of them never heard of them,maybe jim's wages at celtic are causing a problem


Hardly a loss? McHugh was a key part of Donegal's AI win and an all-star the same year. Donegal aren't blessed with a deep squad so a player like that will be missed. I don't know the ins and outs of the situation, but I can't see how Donegal losing one of their better players in recent years is anything but a loss.


If a player is not commited small loss Mchugh had 1 good summer can't recall much more after that

champers
200 posts for rank
200 posts for rank

dublin
Number of posts : 181

Back to top Go down

Re: All Not Well in Donegal?

Post  Thomas Clarke on Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:59 pm

McHugh is a top footballer who would make any side in Ireland. Donegal would not have been AI champions without him linking defence and attack so brilliantly.

I don't know the full story, yet I have a lot of time for Jimmy as a manager, and also Mark as a committed, fit and brave player. It's a bad day for Donegal football.

Thomas Clarke
GAA Elite
GAA Elite

Tyrone
Number of posts : 4209

Back to top Go down

Re: All Not Well in Donegal?

Post  champers on Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:07 pm

Thomas Clarke wrote:McHugh is a top footballer who would make any side in Ireland.  Donegal would not have been AI champions without him linking defence and attack so brilliantly.

I don't know the full story, yet I have a lot of time for Jimmy as a manager, and also Mark as a committed, fit and brave player.  It's a bad day for Donegal football.

Wouldn't even get close to the Dublin team as dunphy would say good player not a great player

champers
200 posts for rank
200 posts for rank

dublin
Number of posts : 181

Back to top Go down

Re: All Not Well in Donegal?

Post  Thomas Clarke on Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:07 pm

champers wrote:
Wouldn't even get close to the Dublin team as dunphy would say good player not a great player

He would walk on at any of the half back positions, and I like your half backs.

Thomas Clarke
GAA Elite
GAA Elite

Tyrone
Number of posts : 4209

Back to top Go down

Re: All Not Well in Donegal?

Post  bocerty on Thu May 01, 2014 9:17 am

Hardly a loss!!!! and wouldn get near Dublins team.

Champers you never cease to amaze me with your ignorance. McHugh would walk onto any team in Ireland

_________________
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt

bocerty
Moderator
Moderator

Tyrone
Number of posts : 5920
Age : 42

Back to top Go down

Re: All Not Well in Donegal?

Post  champers on Thu May 01, 2014 1:58 pm

bocerty wrote:Hardly a loss!!!!  and wouldn get near Dublins team.

Champers you never cease to amaze me with your ignorance.  McHugh would walk onto any team in Ireland

look pal that's my opinion ok who would you drop to play him

champers
200 posts for rank
200 posts for rank

dublin
Number of posts : 181

Back to top Go down

Re: All Not Well in Donegal?

Post  johnnos bulls on Thu May 01, 2014 4:10 pm

Thomas Clarke wrote:
champers wrote:
Wouldn't even get close to the Dublin team as dunphy would say good player not a great player

He would walk on at any of the half back positions, and I like your half backs.

Apologies but you're off your head. Have seen him numerous occasions for his club past few years and I would go as far as to say he's one of the worst All stars I've seen in my twentyish years.

Younger brother is two or three times the player. Actually seen him play for Sligo IT when it was man on man and he was fairly anonymous.
Jim didn't help himself at the weekend putting the likes of Classon on when other lads have been there for the long haul. It can be hard to take.

johnnos bulls
GAA Minor
GAA Minor

Leitrim
Number of posts : 321
Age : 31

Back to top Go down

Re: All Not Well in Donegal?

Post  Thomas Clarke on Thu May 01, 2014 4:26 pm

I've no interest in what Mark McHugh was doing for Sligo IT - there are plenty of lads who only come to life under the bright lights.  I'm judging him on what I saw with Donegal in 2011/12, which is a much better environment in which to assess a player.

I felt that Donegal had 5 key players in 2012, none of which they would have won the AI without - Lacey, Murphy, McFadden, Gallagher and McHugh.  Mchugh would have been the 5th of the group, but crucial none-the-less.  While the likes of Frank McGlynn and Neil McGee were perhaps stars because of the system, I think that McHugh could have slotted very easily into most formations.

He is quite quite, has a huge engine, great reader of the game and can play football.  Along with Lacey, his ability to bring the ball out of defence greatly mitigated relative the lack of creativity in the midfield and half-forward areas.

Jack McCaffrey and James McCarthy are excellent wing backs, but they are greatly helped by playing on a top side and never having to defend.  Neither would look quite as good playing for any other side, though I'm not for a moment suggesting that they'd be poor players.  We saw McCaffrey's limitations badly exposed by Kerry last year, and I very much doubt that Donnacha Walsh would have done the same to McHugh.

As Champers says, it's all about opinions.  I rate Mark highly (the brother too), and I see it as a big loss to Donegal.  They don't have the sort of depth that enables you to replace someone like that.

Thomas Clarke
GAA Elite
GAA Elite

Tyrone
Number of posts : 4209

Back to top Go down

Re: All Not Well in Donegal?

Post  bocerty on Fri May 02, 2014 10:37 am

johnnos bulls wrote:
Thomas Clarke wrote:
champers wrote:
Wouldn't even get close to the Dublin team as dunphy would say good player not a great player

He would walk on at any of the half back positions, and I like your half backs.

Apologies but you're off your head. Have seen him numerous occasions for his club past few years and I would go as far as to say he's one of the worst All stars I've seen in my twentyish years.

Younger brother is two or three times the player. Actually seen him play for Sligo IT when it was man on man and he was fairly anonymous.
Jim didn't help himself at the weekend putting the likes of Classon on when other lads have been there for the long haul. It can be hard to take.

JB with all due respect i have watched Sean Cavanagh play for his club along with his brother Colm and Ryan Mellon and Philly Jordan and the only one you would pick out as a county player would be Jordan. Cavanagh can be largely anonymous playing for his club so that argument is a load of b@lls

_________________
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt

bocerty
Moderator
Moderator

Tyrone
Number of posts : 5920
Age : 42

Back to top Go down

Re: All Not Well in Donegal?

Post  Loyal2TheRoyal on Fri May 02, 2014 1:28 pm

I think Jim McGuinness is overestimating the effects of county players playing with their clubs. This debate comes down to the idea that county training can be as detrimental to a county footballer as a club match. That's what sews the debate up for me. I really don't think there was a need to go looking for a round of league fixtures to be cancelled so far out from the Ulster championship.

Mick O'Dowd has this aspect of management down to a tee. I carried out a small study in my own time and found that Meath had more senior championship games than any other county. Yet you won't find any unrest in Meath as regards availability of players. The Meath management think like this - game time at club level is good for you. Simple and positive. In between all of that, preparations for the Leinster championship are managed as they would be in any other county.

You will see Meath reap the benefits of this later on this year.

Loyal2TheRoyal
GAA Elite
GAA Elite

Meath
Number of posts : 3113

Back to top Go down

Re: All Not Well in Donegal?

Post  Thomas Clarke on Fri May 02, 2014 1:54 pm

Loyal2TheRoyal wrote:I think Jim McGuinness is overestimating the effects of county players playing with their clubs. This debate comes down to the idea that county training can be as detrimental to a county footballer as a club match. That's what sews the debate up for me. I really don't think there was a need to go looking for a round of league fixtures to be cancelled so far out from the Ulster championship.

Mick O'Dowd has this aspect of management down to a tee. I carried out a small study in my own time and found that Meath had more senior championship games than any other county. Yet you won't find any unrest in Meath as regards availability of players. The Meath management think like this - game time at club level is good for you. Simple and positive. In between all of that, preparations for the Leinster championship are managed as they would be in any other county.

You will see Meath reap the benefits of this later on this year.

To be fair Loyal, and this is not intended to wind-up, but the work that goes into preparing a county side has increased dramatically since Meath last won an AI. The Royals' record over the last 10-15 years has been awful and they are hardly an example of how to do things right. If anything, your point would seem to support McGuinness' stance rather than disprove it.

Now, having said that, I happen to agree with you to a degree. I think that some club football is a good thing for players, particularly those who are seeing little action on county panels. By the same token, a full-blooded training match within a county squad would probably be at a higher standard than any club game, and there is less likelihood of an injury being sustained due to a dirty action.

It's a tough one, and is symptomatic of a wider issue for the GAA. From Football to hurling, minors to U21s & seniors, club to county and schools to universities, pleyers are having to serve too many masters, all with different agendas. Professional sportsmen have it much easier, as he who pays the piper calls the tune.

Thomas Clarke
GAA Elite
GAA Elite

Tyrone
Number of posts : 4209

Back to top Go down

Re: All Not Well in Donegal?

Post  johnnos bulls on Fri May 02, 2014 2:27 pm

Well his influence was minimal in All-Ireland final '12. In first half against Cork '12 when cork pushed a man up on MMc they really troubled Donegal and nullified McHugh. Forcing him to give a way a score also.

Dublin are by no means unbeatable and have weak links but I wouldn't have McHugh on their bench never mind Starting team.


johnnos bulls
GAA Minor
GAA Minor

Leitrim
Number of posts : 321
Age : 31

Back to top Go down

Re: All Not Well in Donegal?

Post  johnnos bulls on Fri May 02, 2014 2:40 pm

Thomas Clarke wrote:
I felt that Donegal had 5 key players in 2012, none of which they would have won the AI without - Lacey, Murphy, McFadden, Gallagher and McHugh.  Mchugh would have been the 5th of the group, but crucial none-the-less.  While the likes of Frank McGlynn and Neil McGee were perhaps stars because of the system, I think that McHugh could have slotted very easily into most formations.

.

Asked a current prominent Donegal player who played in the AI final that question a little over a year ago. He didn't name himself but said His indispensable 5 would be. N McGee, Lacey, Murphy, McFadden and Durcan. He didn't name himself.

johnnos bulls
GAA Minor
GAA Minor

Leitrim
Number of posts : 321
Age : 31

Back to top Go down

Re: All Not Well in Donegal?

Post  Thomas Clarke on Fri May 02, 2014 4:01 pm

In other words, you must have asked Neil Gallagher, as I don't believe anyone would have left him off such a list.

Durcan and Neil McGee would have been 6th and 7th on my list, with Rory Kavanagh 8th if we want to go that far. Durcan's kickouts were very important. McGee is a very good defender, but I felt that he was slightly a product of the system, as opposed to the someone who the system was designed around. (In other words, fine player though he is, I think that McGee would have been a bit easier to replace than any of the 5 I named.)

Thomas Clarke
GAA Elite
GAA Elite

Tyrone
Number of posts : 4209

Back to top Go down

Re: All Not Well in Donegal?

Post  johnnos bulls on Fri May 02, 2014 4:45 pm

Incorrect!

johnnos bulls
GAA Minor
GAA Minor

Leitrim
Number of posts : 321
Age : 31

Back to top Go down

Re: All Not Well in Donegal?

Post  Thomas Clarke on Fri May 02, 2014 6:25 pm

johnnos bulls wrote:Incorrect!

Then he is even more wrong than I first thought!  Laughing 

Thomas Clarke
GAA Elite
GAA Elite

Tyrone
Number of posts : 4209

Back to top Go down

Re: All Not Well in Donegal?

Post  Thomas Clarke on Tue Aug 05, 2014 9:39 pm

Thomas Clarke wrote:
Given what happened last year, we won't know how good Donegal are until, to use boxing parlance, they are hit on the chin.  I foresee a good start to the year, most likely including promotion to division 1, and lots of positive vibes coming from the camp.  They may even look the part in a relatively average Ulster Championship.

However, that will tell us nothing as to how they will go in July/August.  Questions regarding appetite, depth, midfield weaknesses and the mental scars of a disastrous 2013 will only be posed at that stage.  Ironically, given what they have achieved, I'd say that there are more uncertainties surrounding Donegal than any of the other Big 6 teams.

Donegal's season progressing just as I predicted, but we're getting close to the time when their chin gets tested.  Probably won't be this week, but we're soon going to see exactly what they are made of….

Thomas Clarke
GAA Elite
GAA Elite

Tyrone
Number of posts : 4209

Back to top Go down

Re: All Not Well in Donegal?

Post  OMAR on Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:11 pm

I think there are less uncertanties.
1-7 all back to full fitness - key men McGlynn and Lacey getting back to full form.
Eamon McGee who had two torrid days last year can be good or very bad (my one concern here)
Big Neil a welcome return in the middle. If its a fielding contest - as good as any.
Clearly not the most mobile and We may need plan B if we come up against Dublin.
But Kavanagh and McElhinny or 50mins from Toye are options.
Half Forward line is better looking than 2 years ago. We have lost Bradley and McHugh but R McHugh - McNiallias and jigger/Brick/Walsh or again a fitter Toye seem a reaonable swap.
In the FF line McBrearty is hopefully building confidence - Murphy is still Murphy which leaves the major concern.
Possession inside the opposition 21 is precious enough without having McFadden turning over 60pc of everything he touches - which Feeds into his confidence from dead balls -


OMAR
GAA Elite
GAA Elite

Cavan
Number of posts : 3143

Back to top Go down

Re: All Not Well in Donegal?

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 3 of 4 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum