Swanlinbar Object

I'd like to see the GT view on this..

Swanlinbar were beaten by Corduff in the Ulster Junior final last Sunday. Now on the day Corduff played far better, Swad just didn't get going on the day and lost by 4 points. They were 4 down at halftime and had it back to 1 when Padraic Keenan came on and scored a goal.
Swad were contacted by the Ulster Council on the Monday and told that Keenan had played for the Under 16 Ulster team against Connacht so he was obviously too young to play Senior as you can't play Senior until the year after U-16. Swad were invited to lodge an objection and did so. It could result in a replay or just the handing over of the Cup. Swad say they would take a replay if it was offered and don't just want the Cup. They acknowledge that Corduff were better on the day.

What's the view?

Fair enough. The other lot shouldn't have been fielding underage players.

Dunno - though it seems the Ulster Council are clearly looking to do Corduff. If the guy got a goal then he had a clear impact on the game. Clearly better or not Swan were within a point when the teeny terror tore through ... replay methinks.

Lucky its not a Meath club ...... there'd be no fair play then ...

rules are rules they should be thrown out very simple really

Jon clubs should not play U16s,what if that young lad got hurt afterall hes only a kid..Rules are there to protect him,some clubs won't play youngsters till their finished minor..

mullins wrote:Jon clubs should not play U16s,what if that young lad got hurt afterall hes only a kid..Rules are there to protect him,some clubs won't play youngsters till their finished minor..

Ah him and his mates are probably drinking their heads off already!

Rules are rules, as they say, i would have taken a different view on this as i opposed the rule being brought in but understood why it was brought in.

It happened in antrim and the fixture was ordered to be played again.

I'm torn, part of me thinks fook it, it's his club and he came on and scored a goal at 16 years of age, fair play to him. Then again the rule is there to protect him, I've bemoaned local players being thrown in at the deep end and burning out early and the rule is nothing unless it is enforced.

However it now appears that a replay won't be the option, Swad will be just awarded the game. Maybe a necessary deterrent but not a satisfying recourse for any party now that it has happened. And of course the "Shame on Swad brigade" is out in force and people claim there are sour grapes. Not at all from what I can tell, spoken to several Swad people (not normally a fan of their club at all) and they all concede that Corduff were a better team on the day, but how many clubs would honestly see the rule flouted in such a big game and let it go?

It's a messy situation and the blame must lie squarely on the shoulders of the Corduff management.

Jonsmith wrote:It's a messy situation and the blame must lie squarely on the shoulders of the Corduff management.

Messy all right Jon and has devalued the final no matter which way it goes. I'm inclined to agree with your train of thought that the cup will be awarded to Swad and it's of no use to them in this fashion.
Corduff have only themselves to blame but Swad have the option to regroup and put on a push in the AI S/F of this competition.
Swad have played it by the book here and any begrudgers can go and **** themselves......

Begrudgers can be hard ignored Boxty, reading threads on 2 other sites about this and some people's views really are baffling. I'm not a Swad man and would have less than friendly relationships with a few players on the team.. People going on about how Corduff kicked so many wides and should have been out the gate, completely irrelevant of course but ignores the point that Swad kicked 10 wides and 4 into the goalies' hands in the first half alone.

If this lad had come on the field and broke his leg or God forbid something worse, presumably no insurance cover as he wasn't supposed to be playing, the management would be absolutely slated. But things, thankfully, didn't pan out like that so Swad are the bad guys? Say Swad had a 16 year old equally as talented and they wanted to play him but didn't because they stuck to the rule, then would Corduff's actions be more wrong? No Swad can't be condemned for appealing. Perhaps you could commend them had they not objected, perhaps, but they have done nothing wrong as it stands..

Thankfully they seem to be playing it well so far, no rush of posters from the club on the forums sticking up for themselves. Keeping things quiet and by the book. Hopefully they will push for a replay and not take their shot at an AI Semi without demanding a proper final be played. Corduff seem bullish about a replay, maybe an instinctive reaction given the goings on, but they would be wise not to underestimate Swad..

A replay would be unlikely in the circumstances, given the gravity of the infringement and exposure the error threw up....

Hon' Swad....

Jonsmith wrote:Swad were contacted by the Ulster Council on the Monday and told that Keenan had played for the Under 16 Ulster team against Connacht so he was obviously too young to play Senior as you can't play Senior until the year after U-16. Swad were invited to lodge an objection and did so.

JS - just as a matter of interest do you know what would have happened had they declined the 'invitation' to object? Would the Ulster Council have been able to take any action then?

Seems to me if Cavan teams benefit from a breach of rules no problem ( I think Swad' have no problem as they played it by the book) there is nothing but sympathy for them if they slated for daring to implement the rules from certain posters.
But when they break them and are caught out (earlier this year) it's nothing sort of a crime.
You can't have your cake and eat or maybe you can in Cavan 'cause you know all involved.

If they get the title fair play to them they didn't play an underage player, but a precedent took place last year in the munster club hurling championship and nothing came of it when Kilmallock did likewise and that teenager score I think 1-10/11 of the top of my head

i would have a certain amount of sympathy for Corduff but this is an error of monumental proportions here and they broke the rules so they should be punished though i would be in favour of a replay.

Would be interested to know if this young lad appeared during any other championship match this season or was this his first game?

JimWexford wrote:Seems to me if Cavan teams benefit from a breach of rules no problem ( I think Swad' have no problem as they played it by the book) there is nothing but sympathy for them if they slated for daring to implement the rules from certain posters.
But when they break them and are caught out (earlier this year) it's nothing sort of a crime.
You can't have your cake and eat or maybe you can in Cavan 'cause you know all involved.

If they get the title fair play to them they didn't play an underage player, but a precedent took place last year in the munster club hurling championship and nothing came of it when Kilmallock did likewise and that teenager score I think 1-10/11 of the top of my head

First of all Jim I sided with the LEITRIM Club who benefited from the "breach of the rules" in that instance when the objection was made by the CAVAN club who I condemned for their actions. So your point falls flat right there.
Anyways, Completely different circumstances. This is adult football which was the main difference I disagreed with the Feile decision. Grown men are involved, it's not taking medals back off a group of 12 and 13 year olds. The issue with the Ballinamore Hurlers was an administrative oversight that could have easily been rectified if the coach had attended to the matter. Under no circumstances could Padraic Keenan had legally played for Corduff last Sunday. The fact that you would compare the two scenarios makes me really hope you are not involved with underage sport, they were KIDS Jim, children for God's sake..
I was waiting for you to get your shot in there, well done you must be delighted this opportunity came up.

He definitely made an appearance as a sub in the semi final but I assume it wasn't brought to the opposing team's attention at the time. I don't know what would have happened had Swad not objected. It would seem strange that the Ulster Council would make up a rule which they couldn't enforce without a complaint from an opposing club?

Jonsmith wrote:The fact that you would compare the two scenarios makes me really hope you are not involved with underage sport, they were KIDS Jim, children for God's sake.. I was waiting for you to get your shot in there, well done you must be delighted this opportunity came up.

Hey relax JS - this guy won't even buy his kid a Utd jersey ....

Whistle blowing/objecting/reporting

The gaa and other sports rely on it to highlight breaches of rule, swad were right to object he is an illegal player, the rule is broken, i would order a replay though not a handing over of the trophy, it should be considered that he was played in the semi also though as the opponents that day played a team with an illegal player regardless of his role or impact, maybe they and swad should play the final, if this rule isnt implemented with a heavy hand, there was no point in introducing it, as they are not really protecting the youth.

Im not sure of previous arguments between js and jim lads but lets not get of the point or turn this into a moral argument, rules are rules and should be implemented in all instances.

North Side Gael wrote:Whistle blowing/objecting/reporting

The gaa and other sports rely on it to highlight breaches of rule, swad were right to object he is an illegal player, the rule is broken, i would order a replay though not a handing over of the trophy, it should be considered that he was played in the semi also though as the opponents that day played a team with an illegal player regardless of his role or impact, maybe they and swad should play the final, if this rule isnt implemented with a heavy hand, there was no point in introducing it, as they are not really protecting the youth.

That's the thing NSG, from what I heard the Ulster Council were the ones to realise he was underage as someone recognised him from the U16 Ulster team. It would seem strange that they could see a breach of the rules but not punish Corduff without the consent of Swad?
The handing over of the cup isn't a desirable outcome for any of the parties. A replay gives Corduff the chance to show that they can play eligible lads and be the better team and it gives Swad a fair final with legitimate opponents. This way Swad will get a cup they won't want, have no motivation for the AI Semi and suffer the "delighted ye lost you got what you deserve" attitude should they lose that game and Corduff are left with nothing and surely bitter towards Swad and their own management.

North Side Gael wrote:Whistle blowing/objecting/reporting

The gaa and other sports rely on it to highlight breaches of rule, swad were right to object he is an illegal player, the rule is broken, i would order a replay though not a handing over of the trophy, it should be considered that he was played in the semi also though as the opponents that day played a team with an illegal player regardless of his role or impact, maybe they and swad should play the final, if this rule isnt implemented with a heavy hand, there was no point in introducing it, as they are not really protecting the youth.

Not possible IMO given the nature of the incident....imagine the consequences in the event of an injury...Forfeiture of the result and out...