Signs of economic recovery (Green shoots) spotted in West.

Our latest arrival to the neighbourhood is a Ukranian national called Jurious ? with a surname consisting of a lot of z's, v's and k's. For handiness sake we call him "Junior the Crane" locally. He has a wife and 4 or 5 able bodied children 8-14 or so.

As St.Brigid's Day looms, the thought that St.Brigid's Crosses would be in demand occurred to Boxty and I've had preliminary discussions with the Crane in regard to the establishment of a small to medium enterprise. The plan loosely involves the Crane's tribe manufacturing a minimum of 2,000 crosses for sale locally at Marts, Masses and other outlets. Having explained the rudimentary skills of making these crosses to him and emphasising that all inputs and costs will be borne by myself, he is more than keen to participate in the venture.
A brief outline of the economic structures involved is outlined below and after reading through it I have some questions that I feel someone on here might be able to assist with.

Inputs: All costings in € Euro.....

Provision of 2 acres of fresh rushes. 4,000
Harvesting costs (two neighbours with scythes for 1 day, whiskey included) 452
Production Manager's remuneration (self). 1,000
Quality Controller's remuneration (War office). 800
Advertising and signage (Danny "the Dauber" Reynolds, local "painter"). 500
Provision of factory/manufacturing/warehousing facility (self, big shed). 1,000
On-site catering, meals, refreshment etc., (selves) 500
Sundries, to include elastic bands, electricity and heating (self). 1,000

Total costings 9,252...

Sales of 2,000 crosses at €5 each = €10,000
Additional 100 sales (for Junior's personal profit) €500......giving a total of 10,500

Surplus for the Crane family of : 1,248...

This represents 1,248 for about 4 days work and the man is very excited with the plan....
A couple of quick puzzlers:
Should I commission a feasibility study? Should I engage an accountant or rely solely on this forum (B&W)
Would a bank account be absolutely necessary? How many state agencies will support this venture?
Does anyone have Roddy Molloy's (late of FAS) phone number. Will I need to engage a health and safety inspector
given that herself will keep an eye on things (not factored into the costings as yet).
I have put an ancient sign from the foot and mouth scare "Restricted Area" at the gate.

Comments please and no snide remarks. It's a serious world out here....

Surely you are not seeking to make a profit out of St Brigid?

You seem to be leaving out travel expenses to the various selling locations Boxty, as well as something for transporting the freshly cut rushes from the field to the manufacturing facility.

Might I be so bold as to ask who owns the field?

Finally you seem to have ommitted my fee for this short consultancy.
15 minutes @ €165 per hour (less 15% GT discount) - €35 for this post.
Further posts may incur additional fees.

All of the recommendations above are based on the information that you have provided. We have not validated or audited the information provided by you in any way, and are not responsible for recommendations made on the basis of errors in this information.

If you had thought of this earlier I would expect that your production costs listed above exceed the cost of buying and importing them from china. Though at this point you are too late given the lead time on delivery.

black&white wrote:You seem to be leaving out travel expenses to the various selling locations Boxty, as well as something for transporting the freshly cut rushes from the field to the manufacturing facility.

Might I be so bold as to ask who owns the field?

Finally you seem to have ommitted my fee for this short consultancy.
15 minutes @ €165 per hour (less 15% GT discount) - €35 for this post.
Further posts may incur additional fees.

All of the recommendations above are based on the information that you have provided. We have not validated or audited the information provided by you in any way, and are not responsible for recommendations made on the basis of errors in this information.

I'm prepared to withstand the costs of transportation to points of sale myself B&W in the spirit of the venture. The field is only 20yds. or so from the manufacturing plant and transportation is ongoing in the time honoured fashion ie. creels.
It so happens (coughs) that it is indeed myself who owns the field. Do you think that a swift deed of conveyance to one of the Juniors is advisable?
Dan the Dauber has sent me a fax (full office facilities now up and running) outlining a prototype of the campaign postering. Dan feels that the inclusion of the phrase "Haitian Appeal" has a lot of merit and I'm inclined to agree....
I'm happy to invest another €35 for your further advices in this matter but try to cover all aspects of the proposal in your next reply. Stop trying to bleed us dry. I'm very thankful for your advice so far but we are but a fledgeling enterprise..

Ruanua wrote:If you had thought of this earlier I would expect that your production costs listed above exceed the cost of buying and importing them from china. Though at this point you are too late given the lead time on delivery.

Many thanks for that Ruanua. I can but agree with you, the inputs are a tad high but it's the way of things in the current economic climate. Can I interest you in a hundred or two to commence filling the order book??

The fookin' postman wonders what's going on.....I gotta fly to dispel any queries he may have....another €50 down the pan..

These must be special crosses at €5 a pop
Has there been any accelerated age testing done? The preferred location in my house gets a lot of sun and for the last 2 years the crosses have shown a deterioration in colour and tightness come the end of June.
Do they come on a little backing paper with the story of St. Bridget on them?

Given the recent difficulties with the Church authorities are you confident that a market for religious paraphenalia still exists Boxty?

As a marketing ploy could I suggest a mysterious apparitional appearance by the said St Brigid in a field or grotto in the Fenagh environs? Or perhaps a statue of this venerable lady which somehow moves or cries. Ballinspittle Tourist Board among others may advise here.

Can you imagine the international TV crews flocking to lovely Leitrim?

CBS presenter 'We are here in the remote county of Leitrim in the quaint Irish countryside where a moving, crying statue has attracted thousands of pilgrims. We spoke to local storyteller and legend Boxtyeater."

"Well its great for Fenagh and great for Leitrim and great for Ireland and great for the St Brigid's cross which at €50 are an absolute bargain as they have touched the statue and have special powers. Log onto to MiraculousBoxtycrosses.com for more detail."

Given the financial difficulties in the current climate, I'll perform all further work on a pro bono basis. Unfortunately, due to the code of ethics of Charter Accountants Ireland, all advice that I give will have to comply with all Irish taxation laws and regulations. However, somebody who is not an accountant and definately not b&w may well appear on here later and be able to give you some more nefarious advice than I could.

Seeing as the Boxty family currently stands to take an income of approx €8,800 (including Junior's sales of €500) then it would be advisable to try to reduce any potential taxes on this venture as much as possible.

Firstly, if the War Office is not working outside of the house, I would suggest transferring the warehouse and field into her name as a gift. This transaction would be exempt from both Capital Gains and Capital Acquisitions tax due to spousal exemption.
All incomes from these ventures should then flow through the war office, who's total income should not exceed the thresholds for becoming taxable.
Once step one is accomplished, the business venture would be established in a trade in the name of Mrs. Boxty. Contact Revenue to inform them that she is trading as a sole trader, in the business of production of religious goods.
When incurring expenditure, ensure that all outside expenses (Crane & family, harvesters) provide you with an invoice for whatever they are due. Trade with them as external contractors and avoid having to deduct PAYE from their cut.
As a trade has been established, capital allowances should be claimable on the warehouse as it will qualify as a industrial building. Contact Revenue to agree a value and level of allowances to be received.
Ensure to keep receipts for all items of expenditure, no matter how trivial. And don't forget that it's up to you to decide on a "fair" method of apportioning joint expenses (eg. Electricity, petrol) between personal and business.
As for the money for Boxty Junior, give him €500 as a "gift" if he sell shis full share. This will qualify for CAT expemption also.

As I said before, somebody who is not an accountant and definately not b&w may appear later and give you some brief advice on how to conduct this venture without all of the above hassle, and without having to pay any tax, but ethical constraints prevent me from being able to do so.

Short term gain here B lad - the nett result of which is that the War Office owns the lot and you end up looking out the window of a nursing home in Mohill - clutching a reedy Brigid's Cross - wondering where it all went wrong.

Yes Brigid's Cross - but you'll be absolutely furious!

Boxty - don't forget to factor in the Marketing man's cut here. 8% will do me.

black&white wrote:Given the financial difficulties in the current climate, I'll perform all further work on a pro bono basis. Unfortunately, due to the code of ethics of Charter Accountants Ireland, all advice that I give will have to comply with all Irish taxation laws and regulations. However, somebody who is not an accountant and definately not b&w may well appear on here later and be able to give you some more nefarious advice than I could. Beyjasus B&W I couldn't get fairer than that. I'll see you right during the summer in the Hyde on Castlebar...

Seeing as the Boxty family currently stands to take an income of approx €8,800 (including Junior's sales of €500) then it would be advisable to try to reduce any potential taxes on this venture as much as possible. This is not income per se as I see it. These are costs, do you know the value of strong, young, fresh bullrushes this time of year?

Firstly, if the War Office is not working outside of the house, I would suggest transferring the warehouse and field into her name as a gift. This transaction would be exempt from both Capital Gains and Capital Acquisitions tax due to spousal exemption. I'll get on to that (in principle).
.

As I said before, somebody who is not an accountant and definately not b&w may appear later and give you some brief advice on how to conduct this venture without all of the above hassle, and without having to pay any tax, but ethical constraints prevent me from being able to do so.

This part (tax free etc.) is music to my ears. Many thanks B&W for your advice. Indeed thanks to all contributors to date. I would like to add one or two footnotes: All crosses will be sprayed with a form of clear polyeurathane, a sort of clear lacquer to ensure colour retention and longevity. The purpose of this project is non profitmaking. It is to help our newest neighbour establish himself as a man of vision and enterprise. This project stands on it's own merits and advices regarding moving statues and the like, while welcome, are deemed to be a little overboard commercially.
In this regard it wouldn't be too hard to start a bit of a rumour about a cow having difficulty calving and being touched by a "magic cross" ensuring success.
Work suspended at 19.00 hrs----550 made to date--only 7 failed the Quality controller...

Boxty i'm no accountant but even i can see your paying the staff way too much - its guys like you paying over the top wages that has the country in the mess its in -

get him registered with the dole get the cheque sent to your house and then hand it over as payment he'll never know the difference!!!!!!

bocerty wrote:Boxty i'm no accountant but even i can see your paying the staff way too much - its guys like you paying over the top wages that has the country in the mess its in -

get him registered with the dole get the cheque sent to your house and then hand it over as payment he'll never know the difference!!!!!!

He's already on the dole Bocerty, it's job seekers training allowance I've signed him up for....
He serviced the oul' central heating boiler in 40 minutes before he went home...a smashing lad, can paint, plumb, service cars, do electrical wizardry and revive broken lap-tops.
I'll let him up to you for a week before the Easter, he'll sort of spring clean for you, lick of paint on the house, carry out all servicing.. .General all round freshen up. I'll inform him tomorrow, Ulsterbus to Omagh etc.,
Call it €300 for the week..(between ourselves. )

The Crane family have kept to their part of the assignment...2,200 crosses completed at close of play today...
Boxty has them under air-conditioning at present to ensure maximum preservation.
Junior opted to walk home while herself gathered a "bit of kindling"......

Once worked with a Leitrim man (ballinamore) who bought an Old Parochial house.
huge lump of a thing about 5,000sq foot - five acres with outhouses for a few ponies etc but in fairly shabby condition.

He brought two lads over to fix up the house(from one of our newer EU friends) and put them up in the outhouses in sleeping bags - fed them and gave them funnily enough €300 a week (between them). he sold the house for 200k profit

True Story
This thread has reminded me of him !!

Ruanua wrote:Once worked with a Leitrim man (ballinamore) who bought an Old Parochial house.
huge lump of a thing about 5,000sq foot - five acres with outhouses for a few ponies etc but in fairly shabby condition.

He brought two lads over to fix up the house(from one of our newer EU friends) and put them up in the outhouses in sleeping bags - fed them and gave them funnily enough €300 a week (between them). he sold the house for 200k profit

True Story
This thread has reminded me of him !!

This wouldn't have been the old Rectory near Ballyjamesdull by any chance???

It may well have been
Half of a set of twins if that narrows it down !!

Ruanua wrote:It may well have been
Half of a set of twins if that narrows it down !!

Spot on Rua...John D is a first cousin of mine...gas world....

Boxtyeater wrote:

Ruanua wrote:It may well have been
Half of a set of twins if that narrows it down !!

Spot on Rua...John D is a first cousin of mine...gas world....

Funny - have'nt met him in years but it was the Leitrim making money - polish labour that jogged my memory - I don't doubt that you are related

If you see him I still have his winnings from the 2003 Champion chase. He backed Moscow Flyer on my credit card account but he never gave me the stake money.

I'd say I'm the only person in the world that owes him money !!

Ruanua wrote:If you see him I still have his winnings from the 2003 Champion chase. He backed Moscow Flyer on my credit card account but he never gave me the stake money.

I'd say I'm the only person in the world that owes him money !!

Cardinal error Rua - I can smell the court case from here ....

Jayo Cluxton wrote:

Ruanua wrote:If you see him I still have his winnings from the 2003 Champion chase. He backed Moscow Flyer on my credit card account but he never gave me the stake money.

I'd say I'm the only person in the world that owes him money !!

Cardinal error Rua - I can smell the court case from here ....

Very unfair comment there JC...FFS these guys,(the twin D's) JD and bro PD, are cousins of Boxty's..Much like their sisters YD and CD.. and their big bro GD, who has risen to the dizzy heights of CEO of BNM (salary €435k,)

Boxty muses "where did it all go wrong" for me type post.......Ah! the D's are the finest

black&white wrote:Given the financial difficulties in the current climate, I'll perform all further work on a pro bono basis. Unfortunately, due to the code of ethics of Charter Accountants Ireland, all advice that I give will have to comply with all Irish taxation laws and regulations. However, somebody who is not an accountant and definately not b&w may well appear on here later and be able to give you some more nefarious advice than I could.


Firstly, if the War Office is not working outside of the house, I would suggest transferring the warehouse and field into her name as a gift. This transaction would be exempt from both Capital Gains and Capital Acquisitions tax due to spousal exemption.
All incomes from these ventures should then flow through the war office, who's total income should not exceed the thresholds for becoming taxable.
Once step one is accomplished, the business venture would be established in a trade in the name of Mrs. Boxty. Contact Revenue to inform them that she is trading as a sole trader, in the business of production of religious goods.
When incurring expenditure, ensure that all outside expenses (Crane & family, harvesters) provide you with an invoice for whatever they are due. Trade with them as external contractors and avoid having to deduct PAYE from their cut.
As a trade has been established, capital allowances should be claimable on the warehouse as it will qualify as a industrial building. Contact Revenue to agree a value and level of allowances to be received.
Ensure to keep receipts for all items of expenditure, no matter how trivial. And don't forget that it's up to you to decide on a "fair" method of apportioning joint expenses (eg. Electricity, petrol) between personal and business.
As for the money for Boxty Junior, give him €500 as a "gift" if he sell shis full share. This will qualify for CAT expemption also.

This is exactly the kind of thing that has this country on its knees. Smart alec accountants ensuring that people avoid paying their taxes. The result is that the bona fide taxpayer gets hammered while the others claim this that and the other and pay no tax at all. And see nothing wrong with it. No wonder we are where we are. A dose of morality and reality in some professions would not go amiss. Some hope.