Lance Armstrong to ride in the Tour of Ireland

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Re: Lance Armstrong to ride in the Tour of Ireland

Post  SamiPremier08 on Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:28 pm

Really don't know what to say on this one.

There is, for me, a decent argument for and against Lance. The former being that, as the most tested sports person on the planet, he has never failed a drugs test. Therefore I would be very interested indeed to see what evidence the authorities have managed to obtain. There are also several allegations of the authorities using foul means (e.g. paying other riders to testify against Armstrong) to get their way. If this is to be believed - and it is certainly true that Armstrong is facing the might of a hugely powerful and potentially corrupt organisation more or less single-handedly - then I feel it is understandable that the man should wish to rid himself of the allegations and legal battles and get on with the rest of his life.

As has been mentioned, however, openly giving up on said battles and in doing so condemning himself to such disgrace makes it hard to defend Armstrong's actions as anything other than an admission of guilt. Add on to this the fact that his achievements were so incredible and near-unbelievable - and that he defeated numerous proven drug users - and another strong cases exists.

I am a big fan of cycling and sport in general and feel that Armstrong has the strength of character which cheats/dopers would not usually possess. I would like to believe that a man such as this was genuine and sporting in his endeavours but like someone has said, we cannot know.

What is great to see though, is that the sport of cycling appears to have come out of such a dark age of doping and I and many others are now lucky enough to see the likes of Wiggins, Froome, Cavendish, Voekler, Roche etc race in a sporting atmosphere. Long may that continue.
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Re: Lance Armstrong to ride in the Tour of Ireland

Post  Thomas Clarke on Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:38 am

A balanced viewpoint, Sami, although I think that some of your points may be clouded by the yellow-tinted glasses that you haven't fully removed yet.

To say that Lance never failed a test is incorrect. He failed one in 1999, but it was attributed to a cream he used for saddle sores. His Irish masseuse at the time was unaware of any such sores. Apparently, the evidence that USADA has also cites 2 samples taken from his comeback period that were consistent with blood doping. Lance, it should be noted, was a donor of money to the UCI to help their fight against doping, but far be it from me to infer that favours may have been done.

Aside from that, you don't have to get caught to be a cheat. David Miller didn't fail a test. Nor did Richard Virenque. In athletics, neither did Marion Jones.

When you talk about the 'potentially corrupt' organisation conducting, as Lance calls it, a witch-hunt, I think it is important to remember that you are referring to the USADA, supported by WADA. These are independent bodies that govern drug abuse throughout all sports. They are not cloak and dagger organisations. For John Fahey, former Australian finance minister and current chief of Wada, to say that Armstrong was a 'drugs cheat' is a big statement, and surely would only be made after reviewing compelling evidence.

For Lance to say enough is enough, and that he is tired of it all, doesn't stack up. What is he tired of? He has not spent one day in court to defend himself against these allegations, yet he is already sufficiently tired to throw away his lifetime's worth of achievements? That doesn't make sense. Armstrong, remember, is not quite the single man, as you portray him, raging against the tide. He is an extremely weathy man with numerous and influental supporters. This was a case that he could have fought, should he chosen to.

So, why didn't he? Well, had he gone to court, the evidence would have been laid bare, and plastered over every newspaper and media outlet. That is much worse that a baseless whispering campaign, which is what Lance is trying to say this is now. Also, to deny the accusations, yet ultimately be found guilty, would have seen him convicted of perjury, and he'd likely be following Marion Jones and Tim Montgomery to jail.

But aside from the evidence, let's look at it rationally. Every other top cyclist of his time was a convicted cheat, including multiple team-mates who supported him. His personal physicaian was a convicted drug supplier (ponder this one - Lance was battling against cheats destroying his sport and threatening his livelihood, yet he hires one to help him?!). He never strongly condemned any drugs cheat, and even went as far as to protest against police raids on teams. He ostracized from the peleton other riders who did speak out against cheats. His times were faster that anything seen before or since. He won 7 tours in the 'doping era'. Many of his former colleagues, friends, co-workers are willing to testify that he too was a cheat. All that points only in one direction.

Some will see this as a bad day for cycling, but I actually think that it is a great day. The sport can start to move forward in a new, hopefully cleaner era (if the UCI really wants this). The people I feel sorry for are honest guys who tried their hardest, but never made it to the top, simply because the riders who were up there weren't playing by the rules.
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Re: Lance Armstrong to ride in the Tour of Ireland

Post  OMAR on Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:35 pm

Whatever one says about Armstrong he was not shy of a battle
If that's aple dheuz, cancer or an ironman triathlon
He seems to have had the stomach for the challenge


So i come to the conclusion that if there was the faintest chance he would come out of a legal battle with even one percent of his reputation intact he would have rolled the dice
In summary if he folded he must have held very bad cards
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Re: Lance Armstrong to ride in the Tour of Ireland

Post  bald eagle on Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:54 pm

Join him to the list alongside Marion Jone & Michelle Smith. Never tested positive but are all drug cheats. His beating of cancer must be treated as a different issue to his cycling career & in that he has decided not to clear his name therefore is drug cheat. End of. And i was one of his biggest backers TC.

I will always admire him for beating cancer and getting back in the saddle as a pro but that is it. Armstrong now joins the list of tainted heros and surely must head the list as Sports Biggest Fraud.

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Re: Lance Armstrong to ride in the Tour of Ireland

Post  SamiPremier08 on Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:16 pm

bald eagle wrote: Armstrong now joins the list of tainted heros and surely must head the list as Sports Biggest Fraud.

No, that would be Titus Bramble who has been masquerading as a Premier League standard defender for several years.
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Re: Lance Armstrong to ride in the Tour of Ireland

Post  bald eagle on Sun Sep 02, 2012 8:00 am

A long, but brilliant read -

http://cavalierfc.tumblr.com/post/30172302298/its-not-about-the-bike

You could be mistaken to think this article is about Bocerty after his recent escapades on the bike round the roads of Tyrone, but alas it's not!

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Re: Lance Armstrong to ride in the Tour of Ireland

Post  RMDrive on Sun Sep 02, 2012 8:53 am

Great read BE. Thanks for posting it.
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Re: Lance Armstrong to ride in the Tour of Ireland

Post  Thomas Clarke on Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:51 pm

Excellent article, BE. I was familiar with most of it, but some there were a couple of very interesting bits that I wasn't aware of. You're right though, if Boc makes a miraculous recovery from his recent injuries, and goes on to dominate in the mountains of Pomeroy, questions will be asked!
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Re: Lance Armstrong to ride in the Tour of Ireland

Post  Thomas Clarke on Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:05 am

After SamiPremier and Samin10, Buzz Bissinger was one of Lance's biggest supporters. I think it's safe to say that the best-selling author and Pulitzer prize winning journalist is no longer a believer....

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/01/14/buzz-bissinger-i-was-deluded-to-believe-lance-armstrong-when-he-denied-doping.html
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Re: Lance Armstrong to ride in the Tour of Ireland

Post  OMAR on Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:31 pm

Don,t know if anyone caught the full interview with wiggo on Sky. Not the most convincing condemnation ever. Saved most of his ammo for a sideswipe at Kimmage. Omar coming off the fence on this one ;jedi;
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Re: Lance Armstrong to ride in the Tour of Ireland

Post  Thomas Clarke on Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:53 pm

OMAR wrote:Don,t know if anyone caught the full interview with wiggo on Sky. Not the most convincing condemnation ever. Saved most of his ammo for a sideswipe at Kimmage. Omar coming off the fence on this one ;jedi;

Wiggo is extremely vocal in condemning drugs in general.

But he isn't as quick to condemn individual cheats.

I hope he is clean, as it would be yet another hammer blow to the sport.
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Re: Lance Armstrong to ride in the Tour of Ireland

Post  Boxtyeater on Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:14 pm

Fook me, but I've seen an interview with him about 3 months ago.
He has a "shifty" look about him. Some guys/gals, particularly those with "skeletons in cupboards" have that evasive "expression".

You pick this nuance up when negotiating to buy "stuff" from "Black Marketeers"...
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Re: Lance Armstrong to ride in the Tour of Ireland

Post  OMAR on Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:05 am

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Re: Lance Armstrong to ride in the Tour of Ireland

Post  OMAR on Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:51 pm

www.youtube.com/embed/R-PGsHoVYTk

The Manx missle getting a tad peeved with the topic de jour
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Re: Lance Armstrong to ride in the Tour of Ireland

Post  RMDrive on Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:31 am

I'm a cheat, but not within the statute of limitations.
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Re: Lance Armstrong to ride in the Tour of Ireland

Post  Parouisa on Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:51 am

That may not stop Postal et al coming looking for their money back.

He could be in real hot water here - rather than Lance the boil it may be boil the Lance.
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Re: Lance Armstrong to ride in the Tour of Ireland

Post  bocerty on Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:46 pm

Thomas Clarke wrote:
OMAR wrote:Don,t know if anyone caught the full interview with wiggo on Sky. Not the most convincing condemnation ever. Saved most of his ammo for a sideswipe at Kimmage. Omar coming off the fence on this one ;jedi;

Wiggo is extremely vocal in condemning drugs in general.

But he isn't as quick to condemn individual cheats.

I hope he is clean, as it would be yet another hammer blow to the sport.

was Wiggins father not a big drugs cheat, mentioned if here before but i have a cousin who is friendly with a guy who works in the lab that tests the samples from these guys, his words were 'they are all at it including the current Tour de France winner"

big issue he said is that the cheats methods are more advance than the testing methods

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Re: Lance Armstrong to ride in the Tour of Ireland

Post  Parouisa on Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:54 pm

The cheats chemists being ahead of the testers chemists and being one or two steps ahead has always been the way. In fairness to Sir Wiggins I don't think he had a whole lot of contact with his father.

Free my avatar .....
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Re: Lance Armstrong to ride in the Tour of Ireland

Post  Boxtyeater on Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:16 pm

The most remarkable thing I got from the interview was the fact that he never once, not one single time, mentioned Bocerty as a major threat on the cycling circuit.....

This despite Bocerty's admission to taking large doses of tablets.... Wink
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Re: Lance Armstrong to ride in the Tour of Ireland

Post  bocerty on Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:56 pm

Boxtyeater wrote:The most remarkable thing I got from the interview was the fact that he never once, not one single time, mentioned Bocerty as a major threat on the cycling circuit.....

This despite Bocerty's admission to taking large doses of tablets.... Wink

lol

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Re: Lance Armstrong to ride in the Tour of Ireland

Post  bald eagle on Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:23 pm

Lance Armstrong joke of the day -

Lance Armstrong should be applauded for being able to ride on bike so well on drugs. I tried it once & hit a dog and fell into a canal.

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Re: Lance Armstrong to ride in the Tour of Ireland

Post  OMAR on Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:39 pm


If the Jimmy Savile and Lance Armstrong cases have taught us anything it is this:

Don't trust people that do lots of charity work.
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Re: Lance Armstrong to ride in the Tour of Ireland

Post  Parouisa on Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:07 am

What exactly are you saying about Daniel Day Lewis here? .....
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Re: Lance Armstrong to ride in the Tour of Ireland

Post  bocerty on Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:03 pm

Guys any of you know were i can view the second part of the interview he done with Oprah, though i had recorded it but no sign of it.

Browsed Youtube but cant get the full thing only bits and pieces.

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Re: Lance Armstrong to ride in the Tour of Ireland

Post  OMAR on Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:07 pm

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xwvscr#.USKlyhBYCK2


Fyi balls.ie is a good site for topical sports,related clips.
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Re: Lance Armstrong to ride in the Tour of Ireland

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